Somewhat unusual Rolleiflex with a China connection

davela · May 7, 2022

Has anyone ever seen a Rolleiflex with Chinese characters factory engraved on it? I bought one recently, locally (near L.A.), and its the 622 model as best as I can tell made in the early 30's (75mm/3.5 Tessar taking lens, Compur shutter, and takes 120 film). A Chinese friend of mine says the inscription on it, located on the focusing knob, translates to "Made in Germany". My guess is that this camera might have been originally imported into the Republic of China and and somehow made it to California, possibly coming with an immigrant owner!

JPD · May 7, 2022

I haven't seen one myself, but I have seen Rolleiflexes and Rolleicords with these markings being discussed before, and there is a photo in the book "Collector's guide to Rollei cameras" by Arthur G. Evans. Germany had good relations with China before the pact with Japan. You can see photos of chinese nationalist forces wearing german helmets. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/National_Revolutionary_Army

I don't know how many Rolleis were exported to China, but they are uncommon.

Dan Daniel · May 7, 2022

Some info-

Rolleicord for Chinese market? - Rangefinderforum.com

another alternative to the dreaded SLR way of seeing, this forum for all format TLR cameras

www.rangefinderforum.com

AgX · May 7, 2022

A Rolleicord with similar inscription has been discussed on the net. But all these seem not to be mentioned in the Rollei literature.

I guess the engraving was added by the exporter/importer to China.

ic-racer · May 7, 2022

When Honeywell imported Rolleiflex to USA, those cameras had special logos that included the word Honeywell under Rolleiflex.

guangong · May 7, 2022

German camera brands Leitz, Zeiss, and Voigtlander were very popular in pre Communist China and in Hong Kong. The only camera brands my wife’s relatives would buy. More interesting to collectors are the Leicas and Contaxes , apparently shipped during war by submarine, that are engraved Manchukuo

AgX · May 7, 2022

Submarine transport was a rarity and used for high-tech armament knowledge/material transfer between the two countries
Not for trade goods. (And already on the former scepticism should be applied.)
If you got contrary sources, I would appreciate learning about.

davela · May 8, 2022

Thanks for all the information - very helpful. I have attached three photos of the camera. The camera appears to be fully working too. I may film test it in the next few days just for fun.

JPD · May 9, 2022

And they are rarely seen in this excellent condition. Very nice buy!

guangong · May 9, 2022

AgX said:
Submarine transport was a rarity and used for high-tech armament knowledge/material transfer between the two countries
Not for trade goods. (And already on the former scepticism should be applied.)
If you got contrary sources, I would appreciate learning about.

Info was related to me by my friend, who is a recognized Leica authority. Serial numbers on Leicas indicate war time production. These cameras were not considered as market goods, but essential military equipment. Manchukuo was a Japanese puppet state.
The minute that Japan declared war on US, foreign commercial shipping refused shipping to Japan because of dangerous passage. Japanese commercial shipping suffered terrific losses. Military transport ships also sunk. My professor at Columbia’s East Asian Institure in early 1960s was a specialist in this area of military economics. The minute Japan declared war on the US their domestic economy was sunk.

Dan Daniel · May 9, 2022

The comment by Joe Ho on rangefinderforum that I linked to above says that the German-China cooperation stopped in mid-1938 when Germany allied with Japan. Obviously this is before Japan and the US were at war. Joe also says that the markings on the camera in the RRF thread were not military, and it looks remarkably like the engraving on the camera here.

Joe wrote a book that puts him in a good position to know many of these kind of details-

New Book by Dr. Joseph Ho Uncovers American Missionary Visual Practices in China – Albion College

www.albion.edu

250swb · May 9, 2022

I'm also very sceptical of submarines transporting Leica's etc. to Japan during the war. There is a myth that an entire Tiger tank was sent to Japan by submarine, in truth it was a set of blueprints since there was no way to transport parts for a 56 ton tank in a sub. However Japan did buy a Tiger and went to Germany to inspect it, but it was eventually requisitioned and remained in Germany and France during the war. Interestingly Germany shafted the Japanese by charging double the price for it, some allies! And I think this is what we are seeing in the Leica, Rolleiflex, etc. rumours, the Japanese were desperate for access to German technology, especially steel production know how, but it was limited to blueprints and similar technical documents. The Japanese soldiers who went to Germany to pose for pictures in their Tiger may well have taken a Rolleiflex or Leica back with them, but it wasn't trade as such.

AgX · May 9, 2022

Space was extremely scarce on german U-boats. There only was one U-boat modified to be a transporter. It was released in spring 1944, but modfied into a transporter only within the 12 months to follow and seemingly only did one sortie, which even was not completed due to the german capitulation.

Peltigera · May 9, 2022

Seems strange that the exposure information is in English if the Germans were exporting to China as neither country speaks English.

Dan Daniel · May 9, 2022

Peltigera said:
Seems strange that the exposure information is in English if the Germans were exporting to China as neither country speaks English.

Hong Kong?

Peltigera · May 9, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
Hong Kong?

Possibly – but in that case, why not the "Made in Germany" in English as well?

AgX · May 9, 2022

Peltigera said:
Seems strange that the exposure information is in English if the Germans were exporting to China as neither country speaks English.

Which to me is a further indication, as I assumed above, that this chinese version is not Franke & Heidecke thing.

On the other hand, one can assume that anyone handling this expensive camera got a command of English.

JPD · May 9, 2022

Peltigera said:
Seems strange that the exposure information is in English if the Germans were exporting to China as neither country speaks English.

Not really. Rolleis sold in Sweden had the German text. I have seen the exposure info in German, French and English, but the cameras were sold in many countries that didn't speak any of those three languages.

The focusing knob normally had leather, but for many exported cameras a metal circle, like on this camera, with "Made in Germany" engraved. It was probably easier to engrave the focusing knob with the needed info than etch new DOF and exposure info in Mandarin. Maybe the Chinese text was a legal requirement?

guangong · May 13, 2022

250swb said:
I'm also very sceptical of submarines transporting Leica's etc. to Japan during the war. There is a myth that an entire Tiger tank was sent to Japan by submarine, in truth it was a set of blueprints since there was no way to transport parts for a 56 ton tank in a sub. However Japan did buy a Tiger and went to Germany to inspect it, but it was eventually requisitioned and remained in Germany and France during the war. Interestingly Germany shafted the Japanese by charging double the price for it, some allies! And I think this is what we are seeing in the Leica, Rolleiflex, etc. rumours, the Japanese were desperate for access to German technology, especially steel production know how, but it was limited to blueprints and similar technical documents. The Japanese soldiers who went to Germany to pose for pictures in their Tiger may well have taken a Rolleiflex or Leica back with them, but it wasn't trade as such.

I can only point out that a very small compact box would take up only a small space on a U boat. Also, serial numbers for cameras engraved Manchukuo correlate with war time production in Germany. Cameras were for military application, not vacation snapshots. Not long after Pearl Harbor, most commercial shipping to Japan came to an abrupt end. Not planned that way. Japanese were to solidify a parameter to protect occupied territories for raw materials, but the best made plans....

Somewhat unusual Rolleiflex with a China connection

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