Something old is new again....

Bruce Osgood · Sep 23, 2015

I've been getting rather harsh contrast separation recently from a Delta 400 and D-76 combination using Ilford Classic paper and LPD paper developer (1+2).

Rather than altering the LPD I looked about for a home bred soft developer and found in Ian Grants' Lostlabours site Gevaert G.253, noted as a portrait developer from about 1938. I Googled around and found a formula.

It contains 4 ingredients + water:

Gevaert G.253
Metol.................................3 g
Sodium Sulfite ...................20 g
Sodium Carbonate - mono
(20 Mule Team Borax).........23 g
Potassium Bromide...............1 g

This is wonderful stuff for easing some tension in contrast.

pdeeh · Sep 23, 2015

Slightly confused - perhaos just the layout of your post?

is there supposed to be a weight for the carbonate or is the borax supposed to be a substitute for the carbonate?

Bruce Osgood · Sep 23, 2015

I didn't mean to confuse. 20 Mule Team is a 1 to 1 replacement.

Rudeofus · Sep 23, 2015

Borax is a much milder alkali than Sodium Carbonate, so I am a bit surprised that 1:1 replacement of one with the other is offered. Are we looking at two distinct developers here, with most of their ingredients the same, but a pronounced difference in activity?

Ian Grant · Sep 23, 2015

Strange @D I don't remember writing that G253 is a Portrait developer on my website. I do list it though as included in my copies of the 1938 & 1958 Gevaert Manual of Photography

I usually have the Ilford equivalent ID-3 on the darkroom shelf, Kodak's D165/Selectol Soft is virtually identical (to half a gram of Carbonate) as was Agfa Adaptol. When I was using fixed grade papers I'd also have ID-14 a contrast developer on the shelf. Dr Beers variable contrast developer is similar - two parts a soft developer and a contrast developer.

People forget about using soft or contrast developer now that Multigrade papers are the norm but as Bruce reminds us they are very useful even today.

I don't think Borax would be any good instead of Carbonate too low a pH, Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) though might be

Ian

Bruce Osgood · Sep 23, 2015

Rudeofus
I've used the 20 Mule Team product for years in place of Sodium Carbonate. I learned they were equal in substitutes. Perhaps I learned incorrectly, but the results are impressive.

Ian
The reference of Portrait Developer was found somewhere else and I inadvertently attributed it to you... sorry 'bout that.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 23, 2015

Bruce Osgood said:
Rudeofus
I've used the 20 Mule Team product for years in place of Sodium Carbonate. I learned they were equal in substitutes. Perhaps I learned incorrectly, but the results are impressive.

Ian
The reference of Portrait Developer was found somewhere else and I inadvertently attributed it to you... sorry 'bout that.

When used in equal amounts borax and sodium carbonate are NOT equivalent in the pH that they produce. So what you have been using is not G.253 but something else. Now sodium metaborate (Kodalk) does produce a similar pH. Borax is sodium tetraborate. Are you confusing the two chemicals. It would not be the first time on APUG.

Bruce Osgood · Sep 23, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
When used in equal amounts borax and sodium carbonate are NOT equivalent in the pH that they produce. So what you have been using is not G.253 but something else.

Gerald, Could you go a step further and suggest the conversion? I expect to do this again.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 23, 2015

Borax (sodium tetraborate) Na2B2O7.10H2O, 4.7% solution pH 9.3
Sodium metaborate Na2B2O4.8H20, 4.0 % solution pH 11.4
Sodium carbonate Na2CO3.H2O, 1% solution pH 11.5

Bruce Osgood · Sep 23, 2015

O-M-G. I am getting old.

I apologize to all. I did not use 20 mule team, ever. I used Arm & Hammer Washing Soda. I am sorry for my carelessness with household items.

Thank you Michael R 1974. pdeeh, Rudeofus, Ian and Gerald, Thank you too for your interest in keeping things straight.

Doremus Scudder · Sep 24, 2015

Bruce Osgood said:
Rudeofus
I've used the 20 Mule Team product for years in place of Sodium Carbonate. I learned they were equal in substitutes. Perhaps I learned incorrectly, but the results are impressive.

Bruce,

You are confusing 20 Mule Team BORAX with WASHING SODA. This latter is, indeed, sodium carbonate and can be used in formulating developers. (I'm surprised no one else has pointed that out yet.)

[Edit:] I see you've corrected your own mistake already, so you're good to go. Glad you used the right chemical!

Best,

Doremus

Xmas · Sep 24, 2015

Bruce Osgood said:
Gerald, Could you go a step further and suggest the conversion? I expect to do this again.

Hi Bruce

Your recipe will work it will produce low contrast clean negatives you might be down a 1/3 of a stop, but you would need a step wedge to detect.
You are between D23 and D76 sort off

http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/D-23.php

We could call it the Asgood formula, if one was snide or dyslexic.

BradS · Sep 24, 2015

Xmas said:
... it will produce low contrast clean negatives you might be down a 1/3 of a stop......You are between D23 and D76 sort of...

:confused::confused:

How do you come to this conclusion? With only 20 grams of Sodium sulfite and 23 grams of sodium carbonate, the subject recipe seems to me to be nothing at all like D-76 nor like D-23 which both have 100grams of Sodium Sulfite and NO Sodium carbonate at all.

Ian Grant · Sep 24, 2015

BradS said:
:confused::confused:

How do you come to this conclusion? With only 20 grams of Sodium sulfite and 23 grams of sodium carbonate, the subject recipe seems to me to be nothing at all like D-76 nor like D-23 which both have 100grams of Sodium Sulfite and NO Sodium carbonate at all.

It's also listed as a print developer, however it'll work as a soft-working film developer not perhaps as fine grained as D23 or D76.

Ian

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