Soligor 105mm f2.8 query

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

So I got this Soligor 105mm Nikon non-AI mount lens with some other stuff - it has a decent reputation and seems to be in excellent condition but, as always, there's a but....so my first question is, what is this O/L switch in the second photo about? What does it do and how? I ask because if I stick the lens on to a random Nikkormat FT I can see that, despite changing the aperture setting, it refuses to stop down when the shutter is fired. My second associated question is whats the purpose of the reverse aperture scale in green above the No1 I've marked? Is it somehow linked to the green 'L' on that O/L switch?

That switch is located on the ring I've marked as (2) in the first photo and it's not clear if that ring is supposed to move or not? It's currently stuck fast while the aperture and focussing rings operate perfectly. Pressing the small metal tab (currently on the L position) seems to do nothing.

Is this dried grease or something or have I just got the wrong end of the photographic stick??!! Can't find any detail on the interweb

xkaes · May 1, 2022

That's a removable lens mount. I can't tell exactly which it was but it might be a YUS, T4, TX, or something else.

You set it to O (OPEN) and you can remove it, and then place a different mount on it for a different camera -- Minolta, Pentax, Canon, Nikon AI, etc. (That's why there are TWO f-stops scales because some move in the opposite direction than Nikon's.)

Once you get the mount in place, you set it to L (LOCK) so it stays in place.

Why are you having a problem? The mount might have been installed incorrectly. It should be installed when the green triangle is lined up with the red arrow -- at least with Minolta cameras. Maybe with Nikon, the orange triangle needs to be lined up instead. Just a guess -- I know older Nikon's needed to be set at f5.6, for some stupid reason. Take the mount off and reset it, and it might fix your problem.

BobD · May 1, 2022

It's either a T4 or TX interchangeable mount. They look very similar. Both Soligor and Vivitar made lenses with them and there are mounts available for them for most of the major SLR brands of that era -- Nikon, Canon, Minolta, M42, etc. The TX mount was a minor improvement of the T4.

There are some quite decent prime lenses made with these mounts. I believe your Soligor 105 was made by Tokina.

AgX · May 1, 2022

Your lens got a Soligor T-4 mount adapter. There is a Soligor manual out there on this mount.

To mount an adapter, basically you have to set the lens aperture at a certain mark, the green triangle in your case, and get a pin at the adapter set correctly too. Then couple adapter and lens with actuators aligned.

AZD · May 1, 2022

I have a Vivitar 300mm with a very similar mount/adapter. If you don’t get it all lined up the aperture doesn’t work, as you found. While yours may not be identical, it probably involves positioning several pins to their index marks, placing the adapter, then turning the bayonet ring to lock it. I messed it up a couple times at first.

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

Thanks for the excellent feedback....some progress here but I'm still puzzled.

Photo shows lens top and mount bottom. As you rightly said, setting the aperture ring to 5.6 aligns the metal fork with the white arrow on the lens (it's moved slightly when I took the photo). Using the Set Pin Here mark then let's you drop the mount in and the 'rabbit ears' pin drops into the fork, and you turn the locking ring to the right. Turning the lens aperture ring then moves the 'rabbit ears' in the same direction and distance. So far so good.

Now I THINK it's in correctly but with two provisos; (1) it's a very difficult lens to get a grip on, virtually everything is either focussing ring or aperture adjustment ring, it all moves (!), and (2) there doesn't seem to be any detectable lock as it were, the locking ring just won't move any further.

But the lens still doesn't stop down at all, just stays wide open, but I've discovered it's like this with or without the mount. I'd have thought it would stop down when I move the aperture ring with no mount fitted but no, just stays at f2.8 although the aperture ring feels like it's operating normally, with click stops etc.

Is my assumption correct, in which case I can only assume the aperture blades are somehow jammed in position?

One minor and probably irrelevant point - if I move the fork on the lens anti-clockwise with a small screwdriver, a second fork appears up at the location next to the green L. No obvious reason for it's existence and it won't come round far enough to line up with the lens fork but thought I'd mention it.

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

AgX said:
Your lens got a Soligor T-4 mount adapter. There is a Soligor manual out there on this mount.

To mount an adapter, basically you have to set the lens aperture at a certain mark, the green triangle in your case, and get a pin at the adapter set correctly too. Then couple adapter and lens with actuators aligned.

On the hunt....thanks!

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

Thwyllo said:
On the hunt....thanks!

You were spot on, found the instructions in two minutes! Seems I'm doing everything right so now the mystery is just about whether I've got a set of stick aperture blades

xkaes · May 1, 2022

I just checked my TX booklet for Minolta cameras, and what you have is a T4 mount -- and just as I suggested earlier, when you attach the Nikon mount to your lens, the lens must be set at the orange f5.6 mark, because that the way that Nikon set up their metered cameras. Is that what your instructions say?

The green mark is used for Minolta cameras.

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

xkaes said:
I just checked my TX booklet for Minolta cameras, and what you have is a T4 mount -- and just as I suggested earlier, when you attach the Nikon mount to your lens, the lens must be set at the orange f5.6 mark, because that the way that Nikon set up their metered cameras. Is that what your instructions say?

The green mark is used for Minolta cameras.

Exactly that. The green mark and the green scale are for Minolta.

xkaes · May 1, 2022

Here's a way to determine who actually made the lens -- FYI, Soligor is a Marketer/Distributor. They never MADE anything.

Look at the first number of the serial number:

Serial Number Beginning	Lens Manufacturer
1	Tokina
2	Sun Optical
3	Sun Optical
4	Sun Optical
6	Komine
7	Sun Optical
8	Tokina
9	Kobori
A	Komura
H37	Kawanon
H4	Kawanon
H5	Komine
H6	Komine
H7	Tokina
K	Kowa
KA	Kyoei Acall
R	Itoh
T	Tamron

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

xkaes said:
Here's a way to determine who actually made the lens -- FYI, Soligor is a Marketer/Distributor. They never MADE anything.

Look at the first number of the serial number:

[TABLE=collapse]

Serial Number Beginning
Lens Manufacturer

1
Tokina

2
Sun Optical

3
Sun Optical

4
Sun Optical

6
Komine

7
Sun Optical

8
Tokina

9
Kobori

A
Komura

H37
Kawanon

H4
Kawanon

H5
Komine

H6
Komine

H7
Tokina

K
Kowa

KA
Kyoei Acall

R
Itoh

T
Tamron

[/TABLE]

Yes did that thanks, it's 1971 Tokina

reddesert · May 1, 2022

It's a T4 mount. For TX mount, when you take the adapter off it has TX printed on the inside of the adapter and lens. Easy ways to tell from outside:

- Soligor never had TX to my knowledge, only T4.

- For Vivitar lenses, the focus distance numbers in meters are printed in red for T4 lenses, but in green for TX lenses. They were all made by Tokina, and Vivitar Tokina lenses have sn 37xxxx, (but there are also Vivitar Tokina lenses in fixed mount).

I think you can mount a TX lens on a T4 adapter but not the other way around. A few other facts are collected at this flickr link (click image):
The lens should stop down properly when the mount is removed, so it seems that yours has a sticky aperture. Also, I think the O-L locking ring should have a little click when it is locked, and then you have to press the silver tab to unlock it. However, this isn't critical, it just makes it harder to unlock accidentally.

The two sets of aperture numbers are for systems that natively rotate the aperture in different directions, eg Nikon, Pentax, Olympus use the orange numbers, Minolta, Canon use the green numbers. Some of the adapters are more complex and fiddly to get engaged properly than others.

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

reddesert said:
It's a T4 mount. For TX mount, when you take the adapter off it has TX printed on the inside of the adapter and lens. Easy ways to tell from outside:

- Soligor never had TX to my knowledge, only T4.

- For Vivitar lenses, the focus distance numbers in meters are printed in red for T4 lenses, but in green for TX lenses. They were all made by Tokina, and Vivitar Tokina lenses have sn 37xxxx, (but there are also Vivitar Tokina lenses in fixed mount).

I think you can mount a TX lens on a T4 adapter but not the other way around. A few other facts are collected at this flickr link (click image):
The lens should stop down properly when the mount is removed, so it seems that yours has a sticky aperture. Also, I think the O-L locking ring should have a little click when it is locked, and then you have to press the silver tab to unlock it. However, this isn't critical, it just makes it harder to unlock accidentally.

The two sets of aperture numbers are for systems that natively rotate the aperture in different directions, eg Nikon, Pentax, Olympus use the orange numbers, Minolta, Canon use the green numbers. Some of the adapters are more complex and fiddly to get engaged properly than others.

Yes that ties up with some of what I managed to dig up this afternoon. Definitely a nuisance there's no click stop but it's certainly fixed firmly so I guess all I need to do now is get the tools out...

gone · May 1, 2022

It's a Komine/Vivitar and several other named lenses, all pretty much the same from what I can dig up. Komine was the beginning for all the others I believe. Looks like a preset lens. You would usually set the silver part to where you want it to f stop, then just twist the black part.

Mine is similar in a T mount w/ 58mm threads, and on a Chinon CP-X right now. The 46mm filter took some time to find. I have another similar lens coming in Nikon F mount.

Got the negs developed yesterday. The close focus distance isn't close, but the 105 reach helps a little. Very pleased w/ the results. Here's 3 scans, no post, just straight into my toy scanner. I used a yellow filter w/ no hood, Tri-X, EI 250, F76+, 7 min.

Sharp, and the busy bokeh in the background trees isn't there in closer shots, it's very smooth.

Thwyllo · May 1, 2022

Nice pics!

Are you sure we're talking the same lens here? The 171 serial number denotes a Tokina build. It also has a 49mm filter thread not 46mm?? And I'm pretty sure it's not a preset - there is no stop down ring...the black ring at the bottom is just the locker for the T4 mount? So at the moment the mystery of it not stopping down remains unsolved

xkaes · May 1, 2022

Thanks for pointing out the obvious -- that it's not a pre-set lens -- since many people think that "if it's on the WEB, it must be true".

As to your aperture. There's an easy way to test it --and many be you already have. The problem might be the connection to the T4 mount. If you remove the mount you should be able to find a pin or lever that activates (opens or closes) the aperture. If that gets the aperture to work, the problem is probably the T4 mount -- easy to replace (if necessary. It's better to fix the T4 mount -- or installed correctly -- than to mess with the lens itself.

Thwyllo · May 2, 2022

xkaes said:
Thanks for pointing out the obvious -- that it's not a pre-set lens -- since many people think that "if it's on the WEB, it must be true".

As to your aperture. There's an easy way to test it --and many be you already have. The problem might be the connection to the T4 mount. If you remove the mount you should be able to find a pin or lever that activates (opens or closes) the aperture. If that gets the aperture to work, the problem is probably the T4 mount -- easy to replace (if necessary. It's better to fix the T4 mount -- or installed correctly -- than to mess with the lens itself.

Yes I did look at that...the small metal fork in my photo above (in the base of the lens) is the linkage - moving that on its own with the adaptor removed just moves the aperture ring; the diaphragm stays put, and with the adaptor fitted the rabbit ears move with the aperture ring as they should.

There is reference on the interweb to a preset version of this lens but I think it's marked Tele-Preset not Tele-Auto like this one. Certainly the silver aperture ring doesn't seem to have any other function than straightforward rotational.

It's such a puzzle because for a lens made in 1971 it's in remarkable shape, but then maybe that's why the diaphragm is frozen...lack of use?

xkaes · May 2, 2022

Yeah, the "Tele-Auto" means it's not preset. It means "automatic diaphram.

Is the diaphragm normally open or stopped down?

If you reposition the pin on the rear of the lens -- instead of the fork -- does that change the aperture?

If it does, what happens when you then move the fork?

Thwyllo · May 2, 2022

xkaes said:
Yeah, the "Tele-Auto" means it's not preset. It means "automatic diaphram.

Is the diaphragm normally open or stopped down?

If you reposition the pin on the rear of the lens -- instead of the fork -- does that change the aperture?

If it does, what happens when you then move the fork?

So the diaphragm is wide open.

I'm not clear what you mean by "pin at the back of the lens"? If you look at the photo I posted lower down, the top view is the back of the lens and the only thing visible is the fork, while the mount does have a pin but of course that just engages the fork? Am I being thick, sorry?

xkaes · May 2, 2022

I see the fork in the photo, but it appears to show a pin -- exactly on the other side of the lens from the fork. Does that move? If so, does the aperture stop down?

You may need to set the switch to "L" to get things to work correctly.

Thwyllo · May 2, 2022

Interesting developments. Or not...

So I couldn't stop myself and I took the front off the adaptor, only to find a dozen tiny ball bearings and some curved stainless steel pieces that, given I lifted the top out carefully, didn't seem to be in any recognisable form, so may have been 'got at' or otherwise collapsed.

I looked for another T4 Nikon F mount but virtually nothing about in Europe....an Etsy seller wanting 60 euros inc delivery (!) but also a UK seller with a very cheap Soligor lens for which he could provide a T4 Nikon mount. But the thing I noticed, and I've asked the seller about (he seems clued up) is that the pin in the attached photo is, as my wife might say, proudly erect, where the pin on my 105 is suffering dysfunction and is virtually flush, which I suspect might be holding the diaphragm open, so I'm going to put a tiny amount of alcohol on it and see if its not just gummed up - nothing ventured and all that....

All I need now is someone who has taken a T4 apart......

xkaes · May 2, 2022

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

And I think you might have better luck finding a T4 adapter on a dead lens -- the only problem is it might be dead because it's a bad adapter. But a good, cheap T4 will show up someday -- or you MIGHT be able to fix yours, now that it has TWO problems!

You MIGHT be able to put T4 lenses on TX adapters, but you better check that out first.

Thwyllo · May 2, 2022

xkaes said:
I think you've hit the nail on the head.

And I think you might have better luck finding a T4 adapter on a dead lens -- the only problem is it might be dead because it's a bad adapter. But a good, cheap T4 will show up someday -- or you MIGHT be able to fix yours, now that it has TWO problems!

You MIGHT be able to put T4 lenses on TX adapters, but you better check that out first.

In fact after a dab of alcohol, that pin now comes out if I tap the lens upside down, but drops back in when I turn it upright again...theres absolutely no resistance, so I suspect the diaphragm is indeed stuck in the wide open position somehow. Oh well, just another day in the office...

But thanks for all your input, its been helpful

xkaes · May 2, 2022

That's not good news for sure.

I just bought a lens from a thrift store. Looks great. Turns out everything works great, but it's STUCK on infinity. No wonder someone donated it.

Oh well.

Soligor 105mm f2.8 query

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