For Sale SOLD - Sawyer Mark IV 127 TLR - SOLD

beemermark · Nov 29, 2021

Beautiful pristine 127mm TLR that I've owned for a long time. Comes with the half case but the case is starting to tear at the corner. Has a red window on the back but after the first shot is located all other shots are like a late model Rolleiflex. Wind the film and cock the shutter just like a Rolleiflex. This does eliminate the complexity of the later Rolleiflex's and works just as well. Shutters speeds seem accurate, ground glass is relatively bright. Speeds and stops are EVS locked and shown on top of the taking lens. $175 shipped, paypal accepted.

Cholentpot · Nov 29, 2021

I have the ability to slit my own 127 film and backing paper. Sadly I spent my budget on a Rolliecord III recently. If I hadn't I would seriously consider picking this up.

beemermark · Nov 29, 2021

127 film is still available and I develop mine in an Kodak 620 tank that has an apron ~ 2 /14" x 5 feet long. You wind the film up in thee apron and still it in the tank.

Nicholas Lindan · Nov 29, 2021

I'd never heard of this camera - Sawyers as in Sawyers of Viewmaster fame?

Then google turned up https://casualphotophile.com/2020/08/05/the-sawyers-mark-iv-a-miniature-rolleiflex-2-8/

Seems that under the badge it is a high-specification Topcon Primo-Jr.

Cholentpot · Nov 29, 2021

beemermark said:
127 film is still available and I develop mine in an Kodak 620 tank that has an apron ~ 2 /14" x 5 feet long. You wind the film up in thee apron and still it in the tank.

I got a bunch of tanks that can do 127.

Moose22 · Nov 30, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I got a bunch of tanks that can do 127.

Yeah, the reels I got with my no-name tank do 127.

I didn't realize the film was still available, but freestyle has some in stock. Cool camera, someone will love this.

eli griggs · Nov 30, 2021

I have this camera and it's a gem, with a nice close focus ability and smooth, effortless handling.

It takes Bay 1 hoods and filters and can slip into a large coat pocket.

Bay 1 hoods are available in plastic and are low cost, and metal hoods are out there too.

Roll your own film, there are plenty of film slitters out there and the expense of pre-rolled film by third parties is often an issue, as is selection.

This camera stands heads above the baby Rolleiflex and the Yashica 127, by most accounts from other photographers that use these cameras, so good luck, it's a great camera.

Donald Qualls · Nov 30, 2021

Any Paterson type reel will hold 127 -- that's the notch in the adjustment between 35 mm and 120.

Yep, the Sawyers Mk. IV is one of the best 127 cameras ever made, and it's very easy to make 127 from 120 (though this camera's counter probably won't give the 18 frames that will physically fit on a 120 length strip). If I had money...

Cholentpot · Nov 30, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Any Paterson type reel will hold 127 -- that's the notch in the adjustment between 35 mm and 120.

Yep, the Sawyers Mk. IV is one of the best 127 cameras ever made, and it's very easy to make 127 from 120 (though this camera's counter probably won't give the 18 frames that will physically fit on a 120 length strip). If I had money...

It does 18 frames? Hmmm. This is sounding more and more fun. I wonder if I have some 127 spools chucked away somewhere...

Donald Qualls · Nov 30, 2021

I don't think the Sawyers Mk. IV counter will do 18 -- the original film was 12, that's probably all the counter is made for and then it'll freewheel to let you wind through the tail paper. I was saying a 120 roll left full length when it's cut down to 127 will make 18 4x4 frames with a length-counting frame counter that accommodates that. It'll be 16 frames with red window 4x4, because you'll be using the 6x4.5 framing track (not an option with the Sawyers, I believe; the red window is on the 4x6.5 8-exposure track). I have, however, gotten 18 with recut 120 in a Bantam RF (828) with its mechanical frame stop; same frame width as 4x4 127 (28x40 for 828).

It *might* be possible to reset the Sawyers counter mid-roll (as I can do with my Kodak Reflex II, if I ever come into some 220 I really want to try), but that's dependent on the frame counter using a friction roller drive vs. counting turns of the spool like, say, Graflex 22 and 23 roll film holders or my Super Ikonta B.

Cholentpot · Nov 30, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I don't think the Sawyers Mk. IV counter will do 18 -- the original film was 12, that's probably all the counter is made for and then it'll freewheel to let you wind through the tail paper. I was saying a 120 roll left full length when it's cut down to 127 will make 18 4x4 frames with a length-counting frame counter that accommodates that. It'll be 16 frames with red window 4x4, because you'll be using the 6x4.5 framing track (not an option with the Sawyers, I believe; the red window is on the 4x6.5 8-exposure track). I have, however, gotten 18 with recut 120 in a Bantam RF (828) with its mechanical frame stop; same frame width as 4x4 127 (28x40 for 828).

It *might* be possible to reset the Sawyers counter mid-roll (as I can do with my Kodak Reflex II, if I ever come into some 220 I really want to try), but that's dependent on the frame counter using a friction roller drive vs. counting turns of the spool like, say, Graflex 22 and 23 roll film holders or my Super Ikonta B.

How long is a roll of 127?

Donald Qualls · Nov 30, 2021

Cholentpot said:
How long is a roll of 127?

Well, it's 12 exposures of 4x4, or 8 of 4x6, plus a little margin at head and tail and the space between frames. Looks like the 8-on would take 48 cm plus those margins, so roughly 54+ cm = 22 or so inches, vs. 36+ inches for 120. Hence why you can get 18 frames on 120 length, with a suitable mechanical frame stop.

Tel · Nov 30, 2021

The Prrimo/Sawyers is one of my favorite 127 cameras. (Been shooting 127 since I got my Brownie Starmite in 1962.) The Rollei Baby has some very nice glass, but the complicated interlocking functions designed into it make it a bear to fix and also make it prone to failure. The Primo is mechanically simpler and therefore more reliable. I saw how cheap these were a decade or so ago and had a 127 GAS attack, so I now have 11 of them. Probably six are in good working order--the rest have shutter issues, and given the tiny size are not likely to get fixed, at least not by me. I bought up multiple 100-foot rolls of 46mm color stock a few years ago when you still could, and I always sign up for the Ilford ULF/bizarre format film sale every year to replenish my stock of HP5. If you don't want to roll your own, check out The Frugal Photographer: https://frugalphotographer.com. He sells fresh Portra 400 for 127 cameras as well as 110 and APS.

Edit: December 7 is 127 Day. http://127film.blogspot.com

gorbas · Nov 30, 2021

By my measurements 127 film is 25" long

Cholentpot · Nov 30, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Well, it's 12 exposures of 4x4, or 8 of 4x6, plus a little margin at head and tail and the space between frames. Looks like the 8-on would take 48 cm plus those margins, so roughly 54+ cm = 22 or so inches, vs. 36+ inches for 120. Hence why you can get 18 frames on 120 length, with a suitable mechanical frame stop.

gorbas said:
By my measurements 127 film is 25" long

Thanks!

Tel said:
The Prrimo/Sawyers is one of my favorite 127 cameras. (Been shooting 127 since I got my Brownie Starmite in 1962.) The Rollei Baby has some very nice glass, but the complicated interlocking functions designed into it make it a bear to fix and also make it prone to failure. The Primo is mechanically simpler and therefore more reliable. I saw how cheap these were a decade or so ago and had a 127 GAS attack, so I now have 11 of them. Probably six are in good working order--the rest have shutter issues, and given the tiny size are not likely to get fixed, at least not by me. I bought up multiple 100-foot rolls of 46mm color stock a few years ago when you still could, and I always sign up for the Ilford ULF/bizarre format film sale every year to replenish my stock of HP5. If you don't want to roll your own, check out The Frugal Photographer: https://frugalphotographer.com. He sells fresh Portra 400 for 127 cameras as well as 110 and APS.

Edit: December 7 is 127 Day. http://127film.blogspot.com

I feel like I should have gone for this camera instead of the Rolleicord III. Oh well, that bird has flown. Budget is passed for now. Had to replace tires on vehicle so there goes any hope of coughing up spare change. I'll keep an eye on this camera though incase I get a windfall and the sale is still up.

Donald Qualls · Nov 30, 2021

I did look at some pictures of the film chamber on eBay and it appears the Sawyers Mk. IV uses a friction roller to drive the counter, so it's at least possible that you could reset the counter to 1 after advancing to frame 7 and actually get 18 frames on a roll of cut 120.

Donald Qualls · Nov 30, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I feel like I should have gone for this camera instead of the Rolleicord III.

I have that same problem -- spent my allowance, else I'd have been messaging instead of posting about these great little cameras. BTW, another thing 4x4 can do is make extra-large slides that still fit a standard 2x2 mount...

Cholentpot · Nov 30, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I have that same problem -- spent my allowance, else I'd have been messaging instead of posting about these great little cameras. BTW, another thing 4x4 can do is make extra-large slides that still fit a standard 2x2 mount...

I just like having different formats. I've never really shot slides so that would be a bit lost on me.

Tel · Nov 30, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I did look at some pictures of the film chamber on eBay and it appears the Sawyers Mk. IV uses a friction roller to drive the counter, so it's at least possible that you could reset the counter to 1 after advancing to frame 7 and actually get 18 frames on a roll of cut 120.

Worth trying. You're right that there's a follower up there in the takeup chamber--a toothed roller that turns a shaft connected to the frame counting mechanism as the film advances. That silver switch above the crank resets the counter, so maybe tripping that after you've wound up frame no. 12 would buy you more frames. There might be an overlap issue between the 12th and 13th frames but that should be manageable.

Edit: I just pulled the frame counter wheel out of a junk Primo parts camera. There is a large toothed gear attached to the back of the counter wheel and there's a follower arm riding along this that tells the camera when a full frame has been wound up and stops the film from advancing until the shutter has been fired. I had expected that the gaps between these teeth would get progressively smaller to compensate for the takeup spool filling up, but they don't. (I think my Mamiya C3 does this...) So I don't know how these cameras make the necessary compensations, but somehow they do. So framing might be a problem.

wjlapier · Nov 30, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I have the ability to slit my own 127 film and backing paper. Sadly I spent my budget on a Rolliecord III recently. If I hadn't I would seriously consider picking this up.

The Rolleicord III is a nice little camera. I sent mine to Mark Hansen and had him do a CLA and install a Rick Oleson screen in it. Super smooth and great finder now. Mark said it's his favorite Rolleicord camera. Pretty easy to use and small and light. Lens is no slouch.

gone · Nov 30, 2021

I had one of those. They're much nicer to handle than the larger TLR's, it seemed to be the perfect size. Sharp lens, the whole camera felt high quality and well made. Great camera. This was a long time ago, so there's that memory thang, but it seemed quite a bit smaller and lighter than a Rolleicord.

Cholentpot · Nov 30, 2021

wjlapier said:
The Rolleicord III is a nice little camera. I sent mine to Mark Hansen and had him do a CLA and install a Rick Oleson screen in it. Super smooth and great finder now. Mark said it's his favorite Rolleicord camera. Pretty easy to use and small and light. Lens is no slouch.

Not to hijack this guys sales thread...

Is there some sort of device that screws into a cable release socket and turns it into a shutter button. I'm not a fan of the shutter lever on the Rollei3.

MattKing · Nov 30, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Not to hijack this guys sales thread...

Is there some sort of device that screws into a cable release socket and turns it into a shutter button. I'm not a fan of the shutter lever on the Rollei3.

Except you have .
Your question is worth its own thread.

dxqcanada · Nov 30, 2021

Tel said:
... Probably six are in good working order--the rest have shutter issues, and given the tiny size are not likely to get fixed, at least not by me.
Edit: December 7 is 127 Day. http://127film.blogspot.com

They are not actually that difficult to repair (in comparison to other TLR's)... I have taken a Primo Jr. partially apart and it shows good design.

Cholentpot · Nov 30, 2021

MattKing said:
Except you have .
Your question is worth its own thread.

Roger roger.

For Sale SOLD - Sawyer Mark IV 127 TLR - SOLD

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For Sale SOLD - Sawyer Mark IV 127 TLR - SOLD

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