• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Sodium Vapor Bulbs

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
201,767
Messages
2,829,832
Members
100,936
Latest member
rdbirt
Recent bookmarks
0

ChristopherCoy

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
3,602
Location
On a boat.
Format
Multi Format
Would it be terribly hard to manufacture your own sodium vapor safelight?

I'm thinking a wooden box, lined with aluminum flashing, and two 8x10 pieces of picture frame glass with red gel filters sandwiched in between.

I used to have a Thomas Duplex, but sold it when I liquidated my darkroom. I dont need near the amount of light those put off, but I'd like something brighter than the 15w bulbs in the run of the mill 5x7 Premier safe lights.

What about this bulb? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...essure-Sodium-HID-Light-Bulb-140913/100017560

Do sodium vapor bulbs require a special balast?
 

Ken Nadvornick

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
4,943
Location
Monroe, WA, USA
Format
Multi Format
That is a high-pressure (HPS) sodium bulb. The traditional darkroom sodium safelight is a low-pressure (LPS) sodium bulb. The combined overall output spectra are different.

If you were to filter an LPS safelight bulb with red filters only, then you would be filtering out all of the desired yellowish sodium doublet lines at 589.0 nm and 589.6 nm. In principle all that might pass would be the much fainter secondary red line at 616 nm. And there are much less expensive ways to get a low intensity red safelight.

Click here to see an overlapped combination of LPS and mercury vapor spectra. The LSP lines are labeled "Na", the mercury lines "Hg".

Ken
 
OP
OP
ChristopherCoy

ChristopherCoy

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
3,602
Location
On a boat.
Format
Multi Format
So how does a Thomas Duplex work?

When I refinished the filters on mine, I used two layers of Rosco #19 Fire gel, and two layers of Rosco Diffusion gel, and paper tested out to 30 minutes with no paper exposure.

ETA: I guess it wouldn't be that cost effective, a quick search shows the ballasts are quite expensive.
 

Ken Nadvornick

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
4,943
Location
Monroe, WA, USA
Format
Multi Format
The Thomas Duplex is an LPS bulb. And your (correct) DIY filtration filtered out virtually all of the blues, and almost but not quite all of the greens, while passing a usably high percentage (but not 100%) of the sodium yellow, and all of the red. This is because the Roscoe #19 is not truly a red filter. It's transmission level spikes upward just before the sodium D-line, and so passes a fair amount of it.

Click here to see the transmission graph of the Roscoe #19 Fire filter. Note how much yellow is actually passed.

So if you were printing on graded papers that are sensitive only to blue, you would have very long safe times. My own pre-fogged tests with Kentmere Bromide #3 showed similar results to yours, at least 30 minutes safe, at which point I stopped the test.

If you are printing on VC paper that is sensitive to both blue (hard contrast) and green (soft contrast), the tiny amount of green that still makes it through the Roscoe #19 Fire filter will still fog your paper over time. But the paper will tolerate a far longer working time than without any filtration at all.

The mitigation in this case is to slide a sheet of black board into the upper vanes, then partially close those vanes down to dim the light. The problem for most who use the Thomas is that these very small blue/green spikes are visually lost in the sea of sodium yellow, so they cannot normally be seen by the naked eye, and no danger is perceived.

However, there is a way to see them. Find an old recorded CD or DVD disc, fire up the LPS bulb in a totally darkened room so the LPS output is all there is, then closely observe the light from the bulb as it is reflected from the disc. If you look carefully you will see the blues and greens as faint bands that stand out from the overwhelming yellow background.

It's also a good idea to test LEDs intended to be used as safelights in the same way. They too are not always simply pure red or pure yellow. Sometimes (often) they also emit blue and/or green spikes, and thus can also fog papers.

The mitigation for impure red LEDs is to filter their output through a single sheet of Rubylith. After doing so while using 635 nm red LEDs, my own pre-fogged tests of Ilford MGIV FB and RC papers showed safe times out to at least 60 minutes.

The expected mitigation for impure yellow LEDs would be to do the same with a sheet of Amberlith. However, I have not personally tested that combination, and I believe Amberlith may no longer be manufactured.

Ken
 
Last edited by a moderator:

bdial

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
7,515
Location
North East U.S.
Format
Multi Format
As of last year, my primary safe light lighting is from a few feet of RGB LED strip lighting running on just the red channel. There are many suppliers, but mine came from Home Depot.
Lee Valley hardware has nice mounting hardware with diffusers for LED strips.

As bright or possibly brighter than a Thomas Duplex.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom