Sodium sulfite, hard to get

elerion · Jan 14, 2018

Hello everyone!
After getting good results for about one year using Rodinal and XTOL (which I find, complement one another very well!), I want to try making my own developer. Probably MYTOL or PC-GLICOL.
Caffenol is nice, I've used it quite a lot, but I get a steep density curve, and low film speed, so I'd like to make a low-toxicity better performing developer (ascorbic acid and phenidone based, and free of hydroquinone/metol).

But I'm having trouble finding sodium sulfite,... I never bought it before, but I thought it would be so easy to find, as it is very common as food aditive.
I can get sodium bisulfite and sodium sulphate, sodium carbonate,... but not sodium sulfite.
Is there anything wrong with it? Anyone knows?

David Lyga · Jan 14, 2018

ArtCraft Photochemicals is your answer.

elerion · Jan 14, 2018

Sure, people in the United States are lucky
Many times, things that are hard to find elsewhere, are quite easily found there!
But I'm looking for somewhere in Europe.

Anon Ymous · Jan 14, 2018

You should be looking for a retailer somewhere in Spain, not Europe. There has to be someone selling it there. Look for retailers selling chemicals for several purposes, like food additives and paper the paper industry. Whenever you find some, make sure you buy some kilograms of it. For the record, I paid 3,5€/kg the last time I bought locally.

elerion · Jan 14, 2018

Yes. I'll ask in a big local store not far from where I live.
But their website doesn't list sodium sulfite.
I just started to think that maybe sodium sulfite was beeing banned or becoming hard to get, or something, and I just wasn't aware.
But from your comments, it seems that it must be some coincidence. I'll keep searching for it. Thanks.

David Allen · Jan 14, 2018

You simply need to order it from CG-Professional in Hamburg.

You can oredr it here:
CG-Vertrieb: Fototechnik Suvatlar – Simrockstraße 178a, D-22589 Hamburg – Tel. 040 / 39 57 09 u. 39 79 31 – Fax 040 / 39 19 08 66 – Mobil 0173 / 60 11 77 2 – Email: fototechnik@suvatlar.de

What you need is in German called Natriumsulfit.

Bests,

David.
Dead Link Removed

DavidJRobertson · Jan 14, 2018

How much are you looking for?

I have plenty (>20kg) of anhydrous sodium sulphite to sell. I can do £11 (GBP) for 500g including shipping to Spain. Most of that is the cost of shipping, so you may be able to get a better deal locally.

mdarnton · Jan 14, 2018

I bought about 10 pounds of it on Ebay. I just checked ebay.es, and the same things show up.

Martin Rickards · Jan 14, 2018

elerion said:
Hello everyone!
After getting good results for about one year using Rodinal and XTOL (which I find, complement one another very well!), I want to try making my own developer. Probably MYTOL or PC-GLICOL.
Caffenol is nice, I've used it quite a lot, but I get a steep density curve, and low film speed, so I'd like to make a low-toxicity better performing developer (ascorbic acid and phenidone based, and free of hydroquinone/metol).

But I'm having trouble finding sodium sulfite,... I never bought it before, but I thought it would be so easy to find, as it is very common as food aditive.
I can get sodium bisulfite and sodium sulphate, sodium carbonate,... but not sodium sulfite.
Is there anything wrong with it? Anyone knows?

Try Manuel Riesgo in Madrid http://manuelriesgo.com/82-conservantes?id_category=82&n=22

revdoc · Jan 15, 2018

You might be able to get sodium metabisulfite from places that sell supplies from home brewing or wine making. This can be combined with sodium hydroxide to make sodium sulfite.

Canuck · Jan 15, 2018

Try a hot tub or swimming pool chemical supplier. Typically used as an agent for reducing chlorine levels.

chiller · Jan 15, 2018

If you can get Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Metabisulphite and an accurate set of scales you can make it yourself. I don't have the formula handy [it is in my darkroom] but I'm sure Ian Grant or others can help you.

Martin Rickards · Jan 15, 2018

chiller said:
If you can get Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Metabisulphite and an accurate set of scales you can make it yourself. I don't have the formula handy [it is in my darkroom] but I'm sure Ian Grant or others can help you.

High school chemistry seems to suggest it's 2 moles (80g) of NaOH and 1 mole of Na2S2O5 (190g). If you buy sodium hydroxide liquid (for cleaning drains), that's generally about 50%. Handle with care.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 15, 2018

elerion said:
Hello everyone!
After getting good results for about one year using Rodinal and XTOL (which I find, complement one another very well!), I want to try making my own developer. Probably MYTOL or PC-GLICOL.
Caffenol is nice, I've used it quite a lot, but I get a steep density curve, and low film speed, so I'd like to make a low-toxicity better performing developer (ascorbic acid and phenidone based, and free of hydroquinone/metol).

But I'm having trouble finding sodium sulfite,... I never bought it before, but I thought it would be so easy to find, as it is very common as food aditive.
I can get sodium bisulfite and sodium sulphate, sodium carbonate,... but not sodium sulfite.
Is there anything wrong with it? Anyone knows?

since you are in Spain, try a pharmacy;German pharmacies carry it; no need to by the expensive food grade by the way. Also try Fototechnik Suvatlar in Hamburg Germany;I'm sure he ships within the EU and he has all photo chemicals at reasonable prices; As an additional point, be aware of superadditivity when using so many development agents. I experienced high superadditivity with ascorbic acid and phenidone.

Pat Erson · Jan 15, 2018

Disactis is a very good French supplier. I got my 20kg of (photo-grade) SS from him. Postage fees to Spain should be qute low/manageable.

trendland · Jan 15, 2018

elerion said:
Hello everyone!
After getting good results for about one year using Rodinal and XTOL (which I find, complement one another very well!), I want to try making my own developer. Probably MYTOL or PC-GLICOL.
Caffenol is nice, I've used it quite a lot, but I get a steep density curve, and low film speed, so I'd like to make a low-toxicity better performing developer (ascorbic acid and phenidone based, and free of hydroquinone/metol).

But I'm having trouble finding sodium sulfite,... I never bought it before, but I thought it would be so easy to find, as it is very common as food aditive.
I can get sodium bisulfite and sodium sulphate, sodium carbonate,... but not sodium sulfite.
Is there anything wrong with it? Anyone knows?

Sodium sulfite is a well known chem and may be it is hard to get to you - you should not give up with your research.
But if you can find sources - you will soon realize the pricing is mostly in the same range.
This should not annoy you - therefore you may find many sources to get it (just
look to the responds given from here).
And you also may know - this chem is used in a lot of coutries as E221.
That means it is given to some food as a type of antioxidation agend.
Same procedure as from you developement.
But as one main conclusion from this :
There should be no danger from regulations of shipping.
THE best pricing you may find with
25kg E 221 ! (but then it is mostly not anhydrous 99%).
But it is still working then - believe me!
with regards

Gerald C Koch · Jan 15, 2018

Sodium sulfite is used extensively in the food industry. Some year ago a guy in Montreal posed that he was able to get 100# sacks from a restaurant supplier. I have bought it several times from a site that sells sausage making supplies.

elerion · Jan 17, 2018

I'm still trying to find a local supplier.
I've not been able to contact by phone, so I have to go there, and that is taking some time.

RalphLambrecht said:
since you are in Spain, try a pharmacy

No. Here in Spain, it is not possible to buy chemicals at pharmacies anymore.

Martin Rickards said:
High school chemistry seems to suggest it's 2 moles (80g) of NaOH and 1 mole of Na2S2O5 (190g)

I do have NaOH, for making soap. Metabisulfite is very easy to find. I could try that...
I need to make sodium metaborate from borax and carbonate, anyway (I don't want to buy another chemical, trietanolamine, which seems not very friendly, so the alternative for MYTOL is metaborate, which I cannot get neither; but borax is so easy).

RalphLambrecht said:
be aware of superadditivity when using so many development agents. I experienced high superadditivity with ascorbic acid and phenidone.

Well, I'm not an expert, so really I'm not aware of superadditivity consequences. I've just mixed a few Caffenol developers before, . I'm just thinking about following the exact same formula for Instante MYTOL and PC-Glicol. They seem, based on others experience, to work fine. And I like XTOL, but don't like to mix 5 L,...
(being honest, I like Rodinal, and I think my best developer would be a grain-reduced-Rodinal, but I'm happy with XTOL)

chiller · Jan 17, 2018

This may help others who cannot get Sodium Sulphite. Thanks to Ian and Gerald for the ratios

Rudeofus · Jan 17, 2018

elerion said:
I need to make sodium metaborate from borax and carbonate, anyway (I don't want to buy another chemical, trietanolamine, which seems not very friendly, so the alternative for MYTOL is metaborate, which I cannot get neither; but borax is so easy).

Metaborate is sold by Suvatlar (and probably others), but if you really want to make it yourself from easier to get Borax, please use Sodium Hydroxide, not Sodium Carbonate. Mike Wilde posted very good instructions here on photrio.

elerion · Jan 18, 2018

I just finally found sodium sulfite locally, but phenidone and sodium metaborate are almost impossible. Phenidone is only sold at high quantities, and expensive (approx 1€/g). Metaborate is just unavailable.

Even though metaborate can be made from borax and NaOH, both these are more aggresive than metaborate, which seems quite a safe product.

French online store disactis does have all, metaborate, phenidone and sodium sulfite.
It is, right now, my only alternative. I don't see sulfite, metaborate and phenidone on Suvatlar.

Rudeofus · Jan 18, 2018

elerion said:
Even though metaborate can be made from borax and NaOH, both these are more aggresive than metaborate, which seems quite a safe product.

I would be very surprised, if the much milder Borax is more aggressive than the quite alkaline Metaborate. Yes, Sodium Hydroxide is very alkaline and definitely not something you should touch with your bare skin, but you already mentioned that you want to use it for other purposes.

elerion said:
I don't see sulfite, metaborate and phenidone on Suvatlar.

Are you looking at the right product list? Pull a Suvatlar price chart from here, then kindly find "Natriumsulfit sicc." (Sodium Sulfite anhydrous), "Natriummetaborat" (Sodium Metaborate) and "Phenidon" (Phenidone).

elerion · Jan 18, 2018

Rudeofus said:
Are you looking at the right product list? Pull a Suvatlar price chart from here, then kindly find "Natriumsulfit sicc." (Sodium Sulfite anhydrous), "Natriummetaborat" (Sodium Metaborate) and "Phenidon" (Phenidone).

That link to the PDF doesn't come up on the English version, which is how I was visualising the website.
That's why I didn't see them. Thank you.

Rudeofus said:
I would be very surprised, if the much milder Borax is more aggressive than the quite alkaline Metaborate.

Well, I don't know. But, according to safety data on disactis, it seems that borax is more hazardous.

Martin Rickards · Jan 18, 2018

elerion said:
That link to the PDF doesn't come up on the English version, which is how I was visualising the website.
That's why I didn't see them. Thank you.

Well, I don't know. But, according to safety data on disactis, it seems that borax is more hazardous.

View attachment 193699

You could also try Silverprint in the UK, http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/Raw-Chemicals/products/461/

RalphLambrecht · Jan 18, 2018

David Lyga said:
ArtCraft Photochemicals is your answer.

probably not for somebody located in Spain.

Sodium sulfite, hard to get

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency