I also don't wish to create a fake-reality, as Avedon did with the suggestions that people should imagine losing their family at Auschwitz or telling them that he killed a dog on the way to the sitting. I endeavor to get something that's honest and real.
Cate,
"In any circumstances, if you can help it, but certainly not in the cause of art (or photography)"
IT sounds like you do not think that Photography is ART in this last statment.
ILYA
The emotional reaction captured in the image is genuine. What difference the stimulus?
In photography, there is no "fake reality." There is no "real reality." There is only the photograph.
Sanders McNew
Okay, Cheryl: If not "great," then how about, "Good enough to get two major retrospectives in the Metropolitan Museum of Art while still alive"?
Honestly, I get it that we live in a world of atomic dispersion and cultural anomie and infinite relativity. But if the merit of even a giant like Avedon (or Penn, or Mapplethorpe, or or or) can be reduced to "a total matter of perspective and opinion, really," then, really, we've arrived at a world cast so adrift from its moorings as to make any reasoned discourse on matters aesthetic nearly impossible.
FWIW, if a living artist gets his own show in the Met, that qualifies as "great" in my book.
Sanders.
The emotional reaction captured in the image is genuine. What difference the stimulus?
It flabbergasts me to read threads like this that impugn great photographers for stuff like this. There are, literally, millions more people who will see and admire Avedon's portrait of the Windsors than will ever see all of my photographs combined. And so it should be.
In photography, there is no "fake reality." There is no "real reality." There is only the photograph.
Sanders McNew
Neal
"I see strangers from time to time that I would like to photograph, but since I prefer 8x10, I never have the camera with me to do it right then. And, approaching a stranger and talking to them about a shoot sometime in the future hasn't worked so far. Sometimes they say yes, but it doesn't get scheduled. "
May be this is just another way to answer my above question
To Me, working( not for money) with a peorson unknown is just that-
The UNKNOWN ... I am addicted to that spontaneous reaction , that momment of revelation...
NEAL, you say you try to "schedule" ... This actually brings me back what wrote earlier , I would leave everybody around me before I would live my 8x10 behind, (some around me feel that it is problem...)it is always with me 24/7 ready to go off at any moment
ILYA
i really don't see the difference between telling someone they have a nice tie ( exec headshot ) having kids jump on the bed or a group hug or taking a lolipop from the tike ( kid shot ) or doing what karsh or avedon did .. they are all the same to me, and all is done to get the wanted expression from the person having a portrait taken ... they are all different extremes of the same thing.
Cheryl/Sanders/Cate and company,
This has been a nice chat.
I am trying to grasp ,get my mind around ,understand a personal fullfillment to a professional photographer of capturing a successfull image of a
walk in/assigment/a job
is it getting paid for a job well done?
I mean, you will never see this person again, you don't know their life only for that brief moment, they are not part of your life...
I guess I just answered my own question,correct me if I am wrong-
The final print is realy about you , is it not?
They get a capture of that moment and you get to show what you did,true?
Help me understand this...
Kind Regards... ILYA
Exactly. In fact, I would go one further. When Avedon lies to the Windsors, and tells them his car hit a dog on the way to the shoot, their elicited reaction are, at least, their genuine response to the remark. Isn't that more "real," or "honest," than to ask a sitter to say, "Cheese!" to create the illusion of a smile?
Portraiture is an exercise in mutual manipulation.
I'm not nearly cynical enough to agree with that. It's certainly true of some photographers, but it's an enormously broad brush to apply to all portraiture. The day I start believing that is the day I stop making portraits.
I like this discussion for the simple reason that I would love to do what you are both doing , that is - to do it all the time- 24/7 , but always had a reservation about it becoming a JOB , I love and cherish photography so much that I do not want that to happen, you guys giving me something I have never thought of
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