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- Jul 26, 2009
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Yes, the fixer goes back clear.
Thanks laser. I never had any doubt that the dye could be removed from the film by fix as the last part of the dev, stop and fix process but it would seem from what you have said that the dye colours the fix or does " frees the dye so it goes into solution" mean that the dye's colour simply disappears in the fix which reverts to its original clear colour?
Thanks
pentaxuser
My 13 year old batch of replenished Xtol is definitely darker than "pale straw colour" but the last few films have developed perfectly. The standard theory is that Xtol does not show a colour change as a warning that it is about to expire.....when I noticed that my Xtol has turned a pale straw colour...pentaxuser
I think you did good. I have never had a problem with aged XTOL. But Kodak stated from the rollout of XTOL that the only warning, is a slightly pale straw color to the stock solution. I found a bottle of XTOL in our broom closet, when we moved someone found a bottle under a sink in my darkroom. By the time I found it, it was 13 years old. Looked like light beer. I was getting ready to toss, but I tried it. I increased the time by 40-50% .The negatives look fine, they are slightly under developed but I was impressed.Thanks all for the continued discussion on the whys and why not of pre-soaking. I do this pre-soak with Tmax simply because there is so much dye there It can take a few soaks and dumps with a reasonable period for it to diffuse out before it disappears.
As I normally use one shot developers then contamination of the developer is not a problem and it would seem that most of the dye disappears with the time it sits in the developer and that what remains will wash out with several flushes of plain water that I use instead of acid stop.
What I do want to avoid is enough of the dye remaining to colour the fix which I do re-use and do not want to be coloured by the dye
So studying my process as above, is the consensus that this process will eliminate all the dye or has anyone found that this still leaves enough dye behind to affect the colour of the fix?
It may even be that the fix once poured back into its bottle goes back to clear anyway over the next few hours /days even if it is slightly discoloured after removing from the tank. Is that the case?
Just to make it clear once again this whole thread was started because I had done my usual pre-soak for TMax due the large amount of dye before deciding I had better check the efficacy of my Xtol, I did and found that it failed to reduce the tungsten wire in a 100W bulb to quite the same colour as the original test leader done with Xtol when new and with which I compared it
I became nervous of using the Xtol but the film was already soaking so the die was cast I was then looking for the best solution. knowing that I didn't really have the time to mix fresh Xtol and develop.
I hope that explains the "why " and clarifies any misconceptions
Now the news. As I said I dried the film last night and developed it today and here I confess I reverted to neither making up a fresh stock of Microphen or Xtol today. Instead I used what is 16 year old Rodinal( at least that was when I bought it as clearance stock from a Jessops shop so it may have been quite a bit older ) It was still the colour of dark red wine, a bit like Burgundy, and I diluted it 1+50 when it turned almost clear with just a hint of pink. It seems to have developed just fine but I have yet to check on the grain. I am hoping it won't be too bad as it was TMY 400 in 120 but certainly draining and drying the film seems to have caused no issues so anyone else in my boat can draw some comfort that this draining and drying seems to be worth a shot.
Thanks to all for all the contributions
pentaxuser
I think you did good. I have never had a problem with aged XTOL. But Kodak stated from the rollout of XTOL that the only warning, is a slightly pale straw color to the stock solution. I found a bottle of XTOL in our broom closet, when we moved someone found a bottle under a sink in my darkroom. By the time I found it, it was 13 years old. Looked like light beer. I was getting ready to toss, but I tried it. I increased the time by 40-50% .The negatives look fine, they are slightly under developed but I was impressed.
Rodinal is cool. I still prefer XTOL but Rodinal makes brilliant snappy negatives, maybe even gives a little grain. Rodinal should be in everyone's toolkit!
You only needed to drain the water and leave the film in the tank, no need to pull it out and dry it on a hanger. Soaking for extended periods could cause the emulsion to swell excessively leaving it fragile or even possibly flaking off the base. I don't know your reason for prerinse, but I do it to eliminate the possibility of air bells, and three minutes is plenty for that. Some think it's to remove the AH coating, but that is dissolved in the developer without issue. That horrible magenta color that shows up after processing needs more wash time (as well as more fix time) to flush it away.Rick has summed up my fears about leaving it in water for what might be 18 hours before I can attempt another process with fresh Xtol so I did what Sirius was the first to suggest and a couple of you have mentioned I have dried the film in a print dryer with the fan at ambient temp and hopefully have now got a dry film to have another go at
Thanks all and I will let you know by tomorrow night, I hope, what the outcome is.
pentaxuser
Yeah, I don't get too worried. I've NEVER had a problem. But if I had as many folks have, I would be wary. I haven't used replenished XTOL for some time, but when I did I used a half gallon or gallon "tank" read bottle. Never a hint of a problem. I use stock XTOL in my ridiculous, yet charming Jobo machines. To use diluted on a Jobo I would need a 4 roll tank to develop one roll, of film.But Kodak stated from the rollout of XTOL that the only warning, is a slightly pale straw color to the stock solution. However replenished XTOL gets straw colored and becomes darker over time.
You only needed to drain the water and leave the film in the tank, no need to pull it out and dry it on a hanger. Soaking for extended periods could cause the emulsion to swell excessively leaving it fragile or even possibly flaking off the base. I don't know your reason for prerinse, but I do it to eliminate the possibility of air bells, and three minutes is plenty for that. Some think it's to remove the AH coating, but that is dissolved in the developer without issue. That horrible magenta color that shows up after processing needs more wash time (as well as more fix time) to flush it away.
OT but this is interesting. I understand that is to approach the results of HIE and Efke IR Aura which were films without AH. Interesting. Unfortunately quite impractical for rollfilm.I've soaked Rollie IR film in distilled water to rid it of its AH layer, dried it, and then loaded it in holders and shot it. Looks fine to me. A few drops of photo-flo wouldn't hurt, either.
Yes there is I am sure a probably primaeval instinct in most of us, me included, that gets satisfaction out of positively ridding the film of its dye from the beginning of the processFoma film I do presoak a minute, it is just fun to see the green dyed water come out of the tank.
Thanks for the sentiment but I thought I already had said in #34 how the situation turned out. To reiterate the film(TMY 400) dried fine. I used my old standby Rodinal and the negs were fine. More grain of course than in Xtol but to what extent that will detract from a 5x7 or at most 8x10 print may be debatable. I will use my just slightly "faded" Xtol again with extra development time and see what happensLet us know how your situation turns out!
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