SOAKING FILM

Shannon Brooks · Jul 17, 2019

A student of mine soaked her 35mm c-41 color film in Arnold Palmer tea for 3 days, shot the roll, and hand processed it using regular c-41 processing. The roll came out completely blank - no manufacturers markings or frame numbers. Totally blank. Wondering if anyone has had similar struggle? Developing or blix issue?

Rick A · Jul 17, 2019

Why would you soak film in tea for any amount of time prior to shooting it, much less three days. And then having done so, ask why there's no images.

Photo Engineer · Jul 17, 2019

Developing issue most likely. There should be some edge marking at the least, unless there is a huge amount of inhibitor in that tea.

PE

jimjm · Jul 17, 2019

Am I missing something here? WHY would you soak film in anything before shooting it? Won't that like, destroy the emulsion?

Photo Engineer · Jul 17, 2019

Not necessarily.

warden · Jul 17, 2019

I think you're supposed to soak the camera with the film.

Frank53 · Jul 17, 2019

What happened to the tea?
Did she drink it?
Frank

Shannon Brooks · Jul 17, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Developing issue most likely. There should be some edge marking at the least, unless there is a huge amount of inhibitor in that tea.

PE

You're saying the tea would have bleached the film if there was a massive amount of inhibitor in it? Another detail is there were blotches of completely clear film - which I have never seen. I wish I had pictures but I didn't have a chance to snap one before she left class.

I have never tried soaking film but am always experimenting with alternative processes. I wonder if any substance would start the developing process before even processing? I use coffee often to develop b&w so I am curious if developing is actually happening inside the roll before even processing it.

I'll try a control roll tomorrow with the same chemicals and new chemical to just take inventory of the chemistry.

koraks · Jul 18, 2019

Shannon Brooks said:
there were blotches of completely clear film - which I have never seen.

As in, no orange mask at all? Are you sure it really was C41 film?

No development is likely to take place in the tea due to its low pH combined with only minimal active chemistry in the first place.

I frankly struggle to see the sense of this experiment; I suppose it's one of those fairly random experiments with no theoretical basis in the "shits & giggles" category?

AgX · Jul 18, 2019

Shannon Brooks said:
Another detail is there were blotches of completely clear film.

-) This indicates the emulsion having been washed off/dissolved.

Does tea not have a tanning effect (Tannoids)?

-) What about the parts that were not completely clear? In your first post you stated the whole film being clear.

-) How hot was the tea at the start when in contact with the film?

pentaxuser · Jul 18, 2019

Good questions AgX. If we can rule out the heat from the tea as the destroying element then I do wonder what there is in the tea to destroy the emulsion. Certainly tea tanning works with paper and I realise that paper emulsion and film emulsion are not the same but what's in tea that destroys C41 emulsion? Would the same have happened with B&W film emulsion or chromogenic C41 B&W?

pentaxuser

removed account4 · Jul 18, 2019

Shannon Brooks said:
A student of mine soaked her 35mm c-41 color film in Arnold Palmer tea for 3 days, shot the roll, and hand processed it using regular c-41 processing. The roll came out completely blank - no manufacturers markings or frame numbers. Totally blank. Wondering if anyone has had similar struggle? Developing or blix issue?

I have no clue what happened to your student's film but it sounds like fun what she did. I've done things like that with paper negatives
and in b/w developer not c41 and it worked out OK sun prints too ( soaked in developer dried leave out in a camera in the sun for hours ) worked ok too... I'd use something with little or no sweeteners.

eddie · Jul 18, 2019

An Arnold Palmer is a combination of iced tea and lemonade. It wouldn't be hot.

warden · Jul 18, 2019

I remember seeing a video years ago of a photographer soaking film in water on a sunny windowsill after exposure, and that had some unpredictable effects on the images that the photographer appreciated. But I haven't heard of presoaking, which I suppose could achieve something similar but I'd worry about tea or whatever getting inside the camera.

Photo Engineer · Jul 18, 2019

Shannon Brooks said:
You're saying the tea would have bleached the film if there was a massive amount of inhibitor in it? Another detail is there were blotches of completely clear film - which I have never seen. I wish I had pictures but I didn't have a chance to snap one before she left class.

I have never tried soaking film but am always experimenting with alternative processes. I wonder if any substance would start the developing process before even processing? I use coffee often to develop b&w so I am curious if developing is actually happening inside the roll before even processing it.

I'll try a control roll tomorrow with the same chemicals and new chemical to just take inventory of the chemistry.

It would have inhibited all development if it had an restraining chemistry.

However, your remark about clear spots indicate complete removal of the emulsion layers.

PE

jim10219 · Jul 18, 2019

eddie said:
An Arnold Palmer is a combination of iced tea and lemonade. It wouldn't be hot.

True. Depending on the brand (or how it was made), you're talking about soaking film in a combination of citric acid, tannic acid, and whatever kind of acid the sweetener is. I wouldn't be surprised if after three days the acids didn't swell and softened the emulsion enough to fall off.

Helios 1984 · Jul 18, 2019

AgX said:
Does tea not have a tanning effect (Tannoids)?

Yes, it does. The longer it infuses, the worst it gets. I never drink the tea my aunt prepares because she leaves the bags in the pot for hours, and the tea taste like crap.

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