So TIRED of scratches!

Vonder · May 31, 2018

I have just about had it, with film. Like many of you, I own several cameras. Lots of really good ones. Wanna know what they all have in common? Scratched negatives. Latest is from a Nikon F6. Yet the pressure plate is smooth as a baby's bottom. Happens with a Minolta Maxxum 9, Canon EOS-1V, you name it. Where are they coming from? It's NOT coming from the film (Kodak mostly) nor the processing in a standard Patterson tank. What am I missing? Being driven nuts.

Latest example:

https://flic.kr/p/27AtV7y

TonyB65 · May 31, 2018

Wolfeye said:
I have just about had it, with film. Like many of you, I own several cameras. Lots of really good ones. Wanna know what they all have in common? Scratched negatives. Latest is from a Nikon F6. Yet the pressure plate is smooth as a baby's bottom. Happens with a Minolta Maxxum 9, Canon EOS-1V, you name it. Where are they coming from? It's NOT coming from the film (Kodak mostly) nor the processing in a standard Patterson tank. What am I missing? Being driven nuts.

Latest example:

https://flic.kr/p/27AtV7y

A scratch that even across the whole frame has to be coming from the film transport somewhere.

MattKing · May 31, 2018

Are you sleeving the negatives after they are dry?
How are you handling them after they are dry?
FWIW, a white scratch on a positive image usually means either a scratch on the non-emulsion side of the film, or something to do with a scanner.

Mainecoonmaniac · May 31, 2018

Do you bulk load your film?

TonyB65 · May 31, 2018

MattKing said:
Are you sleeving the negatives after they are dry?
How are you handling them after they are dry?
FWIW, a white scratch on a positive image usually means either a scratch on the non-emulsion side of the film, or something to do with a scanner.

Good point, it could be an issue with the scanner.

Kino · May 31, 2018

Very straight scratches are, as TonyB65 says, transport related. Now, that could be camera transport, or bulk-loader transport, or scanner transport (if applicable) or fill-in-the-blank transport.

You should have a good look at the next roll of film you develop after it is totally dry, but before you cut it into strips. Look carefully on both sides for scratches, but the example is probably base-side.

If you find a scratch;

Does it run the entire length of the roll of film?
If not, where does it start and stop?
Is is totally straight or wavy?

Start looking at where the film has been and try to find the problem by laying the film in the path and examining where it might have touched.

Mainecoonmaniac · May 31, 2018

I scratched my film using a film squeegee. Don't use them.

Luckless · May 31, 2018

That line really looks like dust over a scanner sensor.

Did you confirm that the line is actually visible on the negative itself? You may be in want of a small air blower and a few minutes cleaning your scanner.

Huss · May 31, 2018

Looks like an issue with the scanner.

jspillane · May 31, 2018

Despite years of using cameras of all different makes and conditions, I don't think I've EVER had scratched film from camera transport. It's certainly possible, and maybe i've just been lucky... But I would agree with the above posters, if you are getting similar scratches from multiple cameras, the most likely culprit is probably the scanner (or, if no scanner is involved, than in squeegeeing the film - although I've only ever had that happen to me with foma films).

I've found flatbed scanners to be a real pain, both in operation and results. I've moved to scanning with a DSLR for greater control and have found it easier and faster. Best scans would likely result from sending to a professional lab with high end equipment, but the costs can really add up.

Don't give up on film because of the problems with digital technology! Haha.

fjpod · May 31, 2018

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I scratched my film using a film squeegee. Don't use them.

+100

TonyB65 · May 31, 2018

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I scratched my film using a film squeegee. Don't use them.

Yep, I use wet fingers, never get problems with scratches or water spots, squeegees are the work of the devil.

Sirius Glass · May 31, 2018

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I scratched my film using a film squeegee. Don't use them.

1*106

shutterfinger · May 31, 2018

Scratches with different cameras suggest workflow.
Squeegees as previously mentioned are a common source.
Pulling the film out of the cassette for loading onto the processing reel is another.
Film sleeves often scratch film.
Transport rollers in cameras should turn smoothly with very light pressure (weight of a 1/4 inch wide down feather) on them.
Post a picture of the film if the scratches are on the film.

Robin Guymer · Jun 10, 2018

Scratches were driving me mad too so......
Cured most scratches on my negs when I swapped from opaque sleeves to good quality clear plastic film sleeves.
Never squeegee, I just shake the film vigorously whilst on the Patterson roll till no more droplets come out and hang it to dry.
Scanners seem to amplify scratches and marks, the same negs printed with an enlarger are much cleaner looking. I think the fact that the high intensity light in the scanner attacks the neg from multiple angles blows out the scratches. A DSLR may be a better option for scanning.
With a straight line scratch still on frame 36, open up the canister and check the last bit of film in there under a magnifier. You might be surprised to find it can be a manufacturing fault as I have had a few like this.
Most scratches seemed to be handling related rather than a camera issue for me. Very pleased with the consistent results now that I sorted out my scratching issues.

ic-racer · Jun 10, 2018

Just load a short roll and open the back after firing the shutter a few times. You can then see where the scratches start and stop. The scratches should be obvious on the opaque film.

jtk · Jun 10, 2018

Stop using plastic reels, stop squeegee.

BAC1967 · Jun 10, 2018

I agree with some of the other commenters, there’s no need to squeegee at all, fingers or tool, Photo-Flo is your friend.

When I shoot 8mm movie film I clean the film gate and pressure plate after every roll because bits of emulsion build up and start showing up around the edges of the frame and also scratch the film. That’s what I see after shooting a 50’ roll of film, that would equate to around 15 rolls of 35mm film. It’s probably a good idea to clean the film transport of your cameras on a regular basis. That would include the pressure plate guide rollers, and the mask opposite the pressure plate, anywhere the film comes in contact.

I also agree with Robin, scanning with a camera is much better once you get a good setup going.

foc · Jun 10, 2018

I have been using film squeegees in B&W processing (professionally for 39 years) and I never scratched one film.
The secret is very simple.
A clean wet squeegee and let it "kiss" the film.
Not the gouging I have seen some people do with a squeegee.

ced · Jun 10, 2018

Mount the same neg back on the scanner at the same enlargement and see if the scratch remains in the same place...

removed account4 · Jun 10, 2018

look at the negatives through a loupe and a bright window with copy paper on it so it is like a "light box"
or photograph them with a digital camrea to see if the scratches are actually on the film..

Fin · Jun 11, 2018

I clicked the link, but it seems to be borken, can't see anything. However...

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I scratched my film using a film squeegee. Don't use them.

Another +100. I use powder free latex gloves when the film is wet and hang it after photo-flo without touching the surface.

jtk said:
Stop using plastic reels.

I have had some issues with plastic reels scratching the edges in the past, as well as plenty of loading issues. I only use steels now, however you do have to be a bit careful not to crease the film when you clip it into the center especially if you are using a small changing bag.

Kino · Jun 12, 2018

foc said:
I have been using film squeegees in B&W processing (professionally for 39 years) and I never scratched one film.
The secret is very simple.
A clean wet squeegee and let it "kiss" the film.
Not the gouging I have seen some people do with a squeegee.

Yep. I've had millions of feet of negative, positive and interpositive 35mm successfully processed on a continuous processor and very rarely was a squeegee at fault.

Use them right and they work fine.

If you don't like them, don't use them, but don't blame the squeegee; blame the operator.

Shawn Rahman · Jun 12, 2018

jtk said:
Stop using plastic reels, stop squeegee.

Hi - what's the problem with plastic reels? The few times I've developed my own film, I used the Paterson tank with plastic reels. Easy to load and seemed fine. Do they have a tendency to scratch film the way they're loaded with the back and forth cranking motion?

Wallendo · Jun 12, 2018

Another option is to have your film developed by a lab.
If the scratches are still in the same place, the problem is most likely with your camera(s). Absence of scratching is not absolute proof that it is a developing or scanning issue as I have received back from the lab scratch-free prints and scans only to have minor scratches on the base side when I scan them myself. This could be due to scratching when placing the film in the sleeves or excellent scratch removal by the labs scanner.

Hopefully, I will have my darkroom set up in the next 3-6 months and won't have to resort to scanning to get usable images.

So TIRED of scratches!

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