So much for mechanical cameras

RalphLambrecht · Jul 20, 2023

We heard it over and over again:'keep your mechanical cameras; at least they can be still repaired if something goes wrong. My experience, including a recent Nikon FM failure, is quite different:It is actually very hard to find a repair service for old mechanical cameras. And if you should be lucky enough to find one, hope not to need spare parts, because there are none. Furthermore, The whole deal will cost you more than a new camera!

Don_ih · Jul 20, 2023

RalphLambrecht said:
The whole deal will cost you more than a new camera!

That's a statement that is currently true but won't remain true. Eventually, all the cameras will be broken and the only hope will be to fix them.
That may take a while. I have 120-year-old cameras that work as well as they ever did.

koraks · Jul 20, 2023

Well, yes.

Mechanical cameras: can be repaired, assuming availability of skilled labor and parts.
Electronic cameras: repair options are limited to minor defects.

What's often left out of the equation is that many electronic cameras have been working for decades without any form of maintenance or repairs. Mechanical cameras are a different story.

The move to electronics in many industries was not just to push more extensive functionality (although that certainly was a large part of it). Reliability had a lot to do with it. The same with cars, but many people still have lots of trouble wrapping their heads around that one.

To each their own, in the end. I can sort of see the romance of mechanical cameras. But for actual use, I really, thoroughly enjoy the dependability of e.g. my EOS cameras.

Don_ih said:
Eventually, all the cameras will be broken and the only hope will be to fix them.

With a bit of luck, but that time there won't be any film to shoot with.

Since the argument is necessarily limited to smaller formats than 4x5/9x12cm, we can always go back to the dark ages of wet and dry plate for large format. That's a mechanical world anyway, and conveniently, we won't need any fancy shutters if we all go in plate photography regression.

Don_ih · Jul 20, 2023

koraks said:
The move to electronics in many industries was not just to push more extensive functionality (although that certainly was a large part of it). Reliability had a lot to do with it. The same with cars, but many people still have lots of trouble wrapping their heads around that one.

I was driving on one of the busiest highways in the country yesterday and mentioned to my son that it's amazing what the car industry has managed to do. You look around now at any of the 100s of cars that are driving around you and almost none of them are more than 10 years old. But 30 years ago, you would normally see over half of them were over 10 years old and a large portion of them were over 20 years old. They've becomes so reliable. ... Are "reliable" and "disposable" synonyms?

perkeleellinen · Jul 20, 2023

Things seem reliable because when they go wrong we throw them away!

The only two cameras I've had fail on me (both in the field) were mechancal - a Nikon FM2 and a Minox B.

The Nikon (11 years ago) was repaired for a cost more than a secondhand copy. The Minox (last year) was traded up and became a donor camera on a repairer's bench.

koraks · Jul 20, 2023

Don_ih said:
But 30 years ago, you would normally see over half of them were over 10 years old and a large portion of them were over 20 years old.

Go to southern Europe and you'll travel back in time at least in this sense. Apparently, those little computers under the hoods of the old Fiats, Peugeots and Seats are marching on quite stoically.
Of course, 20 years ago it was similar, but you generally didn't really get to see the other traffic for the clouds of soot and smoke.

Anon Ymous · Jul 20, 2023

koraks said:
Go to southern Europe and you'll travel back in time at least in this sense. Apparently, those little computers under the hoods of the old Fiats, Peugeots and Seats are marching on quite stoically.
Of course, 20 years ago it was similar, but you generally didn't really get to see the other traffic for the clouds of soot and smoke.

Oh, this is spot on... Incidentally, the wife and I have a 2003 1,4l Seat Cordoba, bought used. It needs the occasional maintenance and part replacement (replaced the AC compressor recently), but not to an annoying extent. No thoughts whatsoever about replacing it.

Disappointed_Horse · Jul 20, 2023

I've had exactly two camera failures in my life. The first happened when my fully mechanical, no electronics or batteries whatsoever Pentax SL somehow became separated from its rewind crank. The second failure happened about two weeks later, ironically at the exact same location as the first, when the film advance on one of my Nikon FEs jammed up on me. The FE has an electronically controlled shutter, but the failure was a mechanical issue. Both issues fixed by skilled technicians at reasonable cost.

I still feel more comfortable with fully mechanical cameras.

BrianShaw · Jul 20, 2023

This is not unique situation to cameras… it is same for all manufactured goods. The older they get, the more difficult they become to maintain or get repaired.

The bigger problem is the internet and it’s anonymity where folks can say whatever they want, whether true or not… and not mention the huge number of “if, ands, or buts”. And then there’s the fact that we live so far apart that one persons reality probably isn’t the same as another person’s reality.

Regarding cost… photography has never been a particularly lo-cost endeavor. It feels a lot better when one thinks about all of the years of good service that was enjoyed with the camera. When it was reliable and working properly.

xkaes · Jul 20, 2023

Broad-brush platitudes accomplish nothing. Older mechanical cameras had their pros and cons -- just like newer electronic gear. I've had plenty of experience with both -- from Minox to large format -- with various problems with some of them. Fling all the ridiculous labels you want -- there are no "winners" or "losers".

BrianShaw · Jul 20, 2023

xkaes said:
Broad-brush platitudes accomplish nothing. Older mechanical cameras had their pros and cons -- just like newer electronic gear. I've had plenty of experience with both -- from Minox to large format -- with various problems with some of them. Fling all the ridiculous labels you want -- there are no "winners" or "losers".

Case in point: my favorite camera, a Rolleicord Vb, which is fully mechanical, is also my “least reliable”. Every decade-and-a-half or two it needs an overhaul. Each overhaul has cost the value of the camera or more. There once was 4 repair shop options within a 10-mile radius of my home. Now only one. That camera is both a winner and a loser… it depends on what aspect one is focused on.

xkaes · Jul 20, 2023

And counterpoint. I've got several cameras that are from the same era that have never given me a problem, and still work perfectly well today. Whenever I take winter photographs, I bring them along -- not my battery-dependent, electronic "wonders", for sure!

Paul Howell · Jul 20, 2023

For the most part I agree with Ralph, if you want an all mechanical camera you need to buy 2 or 3 for parts. If you can find a good old school tech he might be able to unstick a shutter, calibrate the light meter and shutter, lube moving parts. When this topic came up 20 years ago people thought that there would repair techs that could micro machine or 3D print parts as needed. Might be the case but no one is offering a commercial service. I have both all mechanical and electronic camera bodies, the newer electronic bodies, with the expectation of Pentax with the nylon gears most are still going strong. And with Pentax it is not the electronics that are failing, it the mechanical parts.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 20, 2023

Don_ih said:
I was driving on one of the busiest highways in the country yesterday and mentioned to my son that it's amazing what the car industry has managed to do. You look around now at any of the 100s of cars that are driving around you and almost none of them are more than 10 years old. But 30 years ago, you would normally see over half of them were over 10 years old and a large portion of them were over 20 years old. They've becomes so reliable. ... Are "reliable" and "disposable" synonyms?

People are holding onto cars longer than ever. Probably because the cost to buy new is so prohibitive for many. 12.2 years is the average age. My wife and my cars are 11 and 4 years old. Guess who drives the newer one?

"...The average age of a car on U.S. roads is now a little over 12 years, marking a new record, according to S&P Mobility, continuing a five-year climb..."

The average age of a car in the US is up to 12.2 years, a new record. How old is yours?

The average age of a car on U.S. roads is now a little over 12 years old, marking a new record, according to S&P Mobility,

www.usatoday.com

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 20, 2023

perkeleellinen said:
Things seem reliable because when they go wrong we throw them away!

The only two cameras I've had fail on me (both in the field) were mechancal - a Nikon FM2 and a Minox B.

The Nikon (11 years ago) was repaired for a cost more than a secondhand copy. The Minox (last year) was traded up and became a donor camera on a repairer's bench.

I still have my Revere 3-lens turret 8mm windup movie camera from 1957. Do they still make film for it?

Chan Tran · Jul 20, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
People are holding onto cars longer than ever. Probably because the cost to buy new is so prohibitive for many. 12.2 years is the average age. My wife and my cars are 11 and 4 years old. Guess who drives the newer one?

"...The average age of a car on U.S. roads is now a little over 12 years, marking a new record, according to S&P Mobility, continuing a five-year climb..."

The average age of a car in the US is up to 12.2 years, a new record. How old is yours?

The average age of a car on U.S. roads is now a little over 12 years old, marking a new record, according to S&P Mobility,

www.usatoday.com

yes in the 70's many people only keep their cars for 3 years.

logan2z · Jul 20, 2023

If you're going to use decades old cameras then you're going to have to face the fact that they might fail at some point - whether mechanical or electronic. And when they do you can either fix them or replace them with another decades old camera which could also fail. I choose to fix them where possible because 'the devil you know'.

If you want some guarantee of repair/parts availability into the future then buy a new or used Leica. It's going to cost you a lot more than a used FM and a repair may not be cheap once out of warranty, but the entry cost is high enough that a repair probably won't be more than the camera is worth

jeffreyg · Jul 20, 2023

I’m keeping my pinhole camera just in case. No moving parts or electronics. As long as there’s film or I guess paper or glass plates it will work.

Arthurwg · Jul 20, 2023

This is why I keep a never used NOS Hasselblad on my shelf.

dynachrome · Jul 20, 2023

I would also rather get a camera repaired, when possible, rather than get another old one. Film is expensive today so using it in a camera which is not working properly does not make much sense to me. I have three Nikon Fes and an FE2. One of the FEs was recently overhauled. I never got an FM and probably won't get one. I like the way a Nikkormat feels in my hands better. The FM also doesn't have interchangeable focusing screens. I am now just past Bismarck's retirement age and I probably have enough cameras to last as long as I might be here to use them or film is available. I have another SRT Super out for an overhaul. I might want another Contax camera to join my 167MT and Yashicas, maybe an RX. I would like the experience of using an RTSIII but they are still expensive and not really repairable. I expect most of my mechanical cameras to keep working for a good while longer.

Tel · Jul 20, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
I still have my Revere 3-lens turret 8mm windup movie camera from 1957. Do they still make film for it?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/927375-REG/foma_411801_fomapan_r100_2x_standard.html/?cnxclid=16898633450260508840110090301008005

summicron1 · Jul 20, 2023

A lot of it has to do with how much quality is in the original camera. I'll buy a working Leica that is 70 years old without a thought ... the machining and design in those are top rate. With proper service every couple of decades it will continue to work pretty much forever (unless really heavily used -- anything wears out.)

My experience with electronic cameras is less good -- but then, most of those I've dealt with were cheaper models. The Leica R3 is its own horror story, but in general I have found that less-expensive electronics in cameras do not last and when they go bad service is harder. At least with a mechanical camera you are dealing with bits of metal that can be removed, cleaned, oiled and put back. Magnets in electronically controlled shutters, and condensers and so forth, are something else.

GregY · Jul 20, 2023

logan2z said:
If you're going to use decades old cameras then you're going to have to face the fact that they might fail at some point - whether mechanical or electronic. And when they do you can either fix them or replace them with another decades old camera which could also fail. I choose to fix them where possible because 'the devil you know'.

If you want some guarantee of repair/parts availability into the future then buy a new or used Leica. It's going to cost you a lot more than a used FM and a repair may not be cheap once out of warranty, but the entry cost is high enough that a repair probably won't be more than the camera is worth

If you keep any camera long enough it's initial cost get outpaced .....My first M2 bought in 1967 cost $175 Cdn ($162 USD), nowadays it would cost about $40 each way to ship it to DAG for repair......never mind the cost of the repair. Yet it's a very capable camera when in working condition.
I paid $1k for this Leica....which had been a brick for years now

runswithsizzers · Jul 20, 2023

Just this morning, I was making a list of things to worry about. So far:

1. Lethal heat waves and extreme storms will prevent me from going outside to take photos.

2. Putin is going to push the Big Red Button, and it will be too radioactive to go outside and take photos.

3. Civil war will be followed by a complete breakdown of society, and it will be too dangerous to go outside and take photos.

4. My four mechanical SLRs will all break, and I wont be able to go outside and take photos.

5. A collapse of the financial system will wipe out my life savings, and I will have to move outside and live in a tent camp and eat whatever I can find in dumpsters.

Now, all I have to do is make sure the items on my list are in the right order, so I will know which ones to worry about the most. ;-)

Kino · Jul 20, 2023

Paul Howell said:
And with Pentax it is not the electronics that are failing, it the mechanical parts.

I have a 645 body that disputes that! Electronics are shot and no parts to repair. I moved all the good stuff to a used body.

So much for mechanical cameras

RalphLambrecht

Don_ih

koraks

Moderator

Don_ih

perkeleellinen

koraks

Moderator

Anon Ymous

Disappointed_Horse

BrianShaw

xkaes

BrianShaw

xkaes

Paul Howell

Alan Edward Klein

The average age of a car in the US is up to 12.2 years, a new record. How old is yours?

Alan Edward Klein

Chan Tran

The average age of a car in the US is up to 12.2 years, a new record. How old is yours?

logan2z

jeffreyg

Arthurwg

dynachrome

Tel

summicron1

GregY

runswithsizzers

Kino

So much for mechanical cameras

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency