So Just What Is "Direct Positive" Paper?

DF · Feb 23, 2016

Is it what was called "Cibachrome" then later on "Ilfochrome"? I know nothing nor have ever done this particular process before, so, to put it shortly, could I have good B&W prints made directly from my Kodachrome slides - onto this paper? Why does Ilford talk about "especially useful for pinhole photography"?

RobC · Feb 23, 2016

Well sort of although those papers were colour positive to positive papers.

I'm not sure that there are any colour positive papers available today.

The black and white direct positive papers today, specifically Ilford, could be used to print your colour slides directly but I'm not sure on how good the results would look.

Typically they are used in pinhole photography so you can take shots in camera onto paper and go straight to print development without using a negative.

I'm sure people have also found other uses such as from digital positive transparency to paper.

ic-racer · Feb 23, 2016

The Ilford B&W positive paper was not panchromatic, so prints from slides will show black for red, etc. Two solutions for 35mm slides. One is to use a 35mm slide copier and copy the slides to your favorite 35mm B&W negative film. The high-resolution solution is to projection print the slides (out of the mount, in a glass carrier) onto B&W negative panchromatic sheet film.

amellice · Feb 23, 2016

Positive Paper is the paper that you will hear people swear about on this forum and it's beautiful contrast and amazing colors but you will never be able to get your hands on it You may find overly expensive Ilfochrome on eBay but it's rarely to find chems for it, even if you found chems it most probably would be bad.

Unfortunately the younger generation missed that and the Kodachrome and will about to lose transparency film too.

doughowk · Feb 24, 2016

I have a large number of B&W slides made with Agfa Scala. Would Ilford's direct positive paper produce good results when printing these slides?

MartinP · Feb 24, 2016

doughowk said:
I have a large number of B&W slides made with Agfa Scala. Would Ilford's direct positive paper produce good results when printing these slides?

That is a good question. If the contrast is a bit high when printed 'straight' then it can always be flashed, in a similar way to that recommended for contrasty outdoor pinhole usage. It would be interesting to try, but I have no black-and-white slides -- let us know what the results are like please!

AgX · Feb 24, 2016

In general any "Direct Positive" material/process is such that yields a positive image without reversal processing.

Such as Daguerreotype but also as Cibachrome. Thus a wide spectrum...

The current Harman paper belongs to the rather classic b&w materials within this spectrum.

RobC · Feb 24, 2016

rotate the paper 180 degrees in the pinhole camera so its upside down

nworth · Feb 24, 2016

Direct Positive was a Kodak tradename. Kodak made a film (Direct Positive) and a paper (Super Speed Direct Positive). The film was a black and white reversal film available in 35mm and 828 sizes to make black and white slides. The paper, which was orthochromatic, was also a reversal product. It was designed to make prints from the film and was also used in specialized cameras. Many photo booths of the 40s and 50s took pictures on Direct Positive paper.

Lately the term has come to be applied to any black and white reversal material.

AgX · Feb 25, 2016

nworth said:
Lately the term has come to be applied to any black and white reversal material.

That is new to me.
As I said above, to the contrary it is a designation for non-reversal materials/processes.

MartinP · Feb 25, 2016

silveror0 said:
If the Ilford data on DP paper is read carefully they mention that the image on the paper is reversed left to right; this is only a problem if there is text in the image (reads backwards) or if the viewer of the print is familiar with the subject and recognizes the reversal.

When printing from a slide, simply reverse the slide - bingo, a correctly orientated print!

wildbill · Feb 25, 2016

silveror0 said:
Not mentioned so far is that if the Ilford website's data on this DP paper is read carefully, they state that the image on the print will be reversed left to right ("mirror effect"). This would only be a problem if the image contains text (reads backwards) or if the print's viewer recognizes the subject is reversed and is bothered by that. See the bottom of pg.8 here:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2015631218381820.pdf

exceptional googling skills!

Ian Grant · Feb 25, 2016

nworth said:
Direct Positive was a Kodak tradename. Kodak made a film (Direct Positive) and a paper (Super Speed Direct Positive). The film was a black and white reversal film available in 35mm and 828 sizes to make black and white slides. The paper, which was orthochromatic, was also a reversal product. It was designed to make prints from the film and was also used in specialized cameras. Many photo booths of the 40s and 50s took pictures on Direct Positive paper.

Lately the term has come to be applied to any black and white reversal material.

I don't think it was a Kodak Trade-name as in a registered Trademark (TM) because other companies made Direct Positive materials using the term in the product names, Direct Postive materials go back a long time well before WWII to the early days of photography.

The Harman Direct Positive paper is a spin off from Cibachrome/Ilfochrome originally made in MArly until re-introduced last year made in Mobberly, Cheshire.

The new Galaxy paper is not Direct Positive, it's a negative material processed in a Reversal process if you want a Positive you can go that with any conventional B&W paper, they are a lot slower though.

Ian

Arklatexian · Mar 1, 2016

nworth said:
Direct Positive was a Kodak tradename. Kodak made a film (Direct Positive) and a paper (Super Speed Direct Positive). The film was a black and white reversal film available in 35mm and 828 sizes to make black and white slides. The paper, which was orthochromatic, was also a reversal product. It was designed to make prints from the film and was also used in specialized cameras. Many photo booths of the 40s and 50s took pictures on Direct Positive paper.

Lately the term has come to be applied to any black and white reversal material.

Back, before time began, (long before World War II and for a while afterwards), every fair, carnival and such had at least one photographer with what resembled a LF view-camera on a tripod. He would take your picture for some of your money, duck under his dark-cloth and develop the DIRECT-POSITIVE paper that he had just exposed (B&W naturally), mount it in a cardboard frame and hand it to you on the spot. Some of these were 4x5" or 3 1/4" x 4 1/4" in size. I'll bet that there were some of these photographers working with this equipment at the turn of the 20th century. I think I have one or more of those old photographs in the family's big box of old photographs in a closet here somewhere........Regards!

doughowk · Mar 19, 2016

The paper works fine for doing photograms (have an example in my gallery). I tried it with regular developer but contrast a bit high, so tried Moersch Separol Soft with better results. May use 2-bath dev next time to get better blacks.
For my B&W slides, contrast is somewhat high even with the Separol Soft. Did one where I pre-flashed for 10 seconds (using RH Design pre-flasher); and the results were near acceptable - better detail in the shadows.

sly · Mar 21, 2016

doughowk said:
I have a large number of B&W slides made with Agfa Scala. Would Ilford's direct positive paper produce good results when printing these slides?

I used it a couple of years ago to print from lantern slides. It took some fiddling before I got it figured out.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I was more successful in the darkroom than trying it in a pinhole camera, though great work has been done by others.

So Just What Is "Direct Positive" Paper?

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