So is it a silver-gelatin or a gelatin-silver print?

david b · Sep 27, 2006

I am about to make the labels for my show and I am not sure which way to list the print: silver-gelatin or gelatin-silver.

I was just at the Paul Strand show in Santa Fe and his prints are listed as gelatin-silver.

So, which one?

Ian Grant · Sep 27, 2006

Either, both mean the same thing, although it is more common to say a print is silver Gelatin.

Ian

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Sep 27, 2006

Silver-gelatin is more common, but really it's the same thing. Whatever sounds most logical to you I suppose. To me, it's Silver-Gelatin as I think of the silver first, but some could think of the gelatin that makes film what it is just as easily. Personal choice.

reellis67 · Sep 27, 2006

I've most commonly seen "gelatin-silver", but I have seen it the other way around as well. I would go with the "gelatin-silver" as "silver gelatin" sounds like the gelatin itself is silver but what do I know...

- Randy

Photo Engineer · Sep 27, 2006

It is interesting to me that neither term was in common use about 25 years ago or earlier. The introduction of digital more or less seems to have forced the inclusion of these terms in our common vocabulary.

Back in the mid 20th century, alternative photos were labeled as to type, but conventional analog photographs were not labeled. Everyone assumed that they were 'regular' photographs as there was nothing else but the labeled alternatives.

PE

terri · Sep 27, 2006

I've seen them both ways as well, but at the 2 exhibits I participated in, I saw "silver gelatin" more. Who knows why?

This is the term I heard "first" when learning, as well......so I would agree it's little more than what sounds comfortable to your ears.

DieHipsterDie · Sep 27, 2006

It's a black and white print.

RobLewis · Sep 27, 2006

OK, here's a rookie question that I have been thinking of asking...
(I've consulted my Ansel Adams Guide to Photography, no mention of it...)
I print using Dektol developer, on Ilford MG RC paper. Is this a silver gelatin print? (or gelatin silver, if you prefer) If not, how would I word it on a description?
Feel free to mock me for asking. I can take it

DannL · Sep 27, 2006

RobLewis said:
OK, here's a rookie question that I have been thinking of asking...
(I've consulted my Ansel Adams Guide to Photography, no mention of it...)
I print using Dektol developer, on Ilford MG RC paper. Is this a silver gelatin print? (or gelatin silver, if you prefer) If not, how would I word it on a description?
Feel free to mock me for asking. I can take it

My question is the same . . . and to add . . . I can find resin and fiber paper easy enough. I can also make gelatin and albumen paper at home. But, where can I buy the so called "silver gelatin" paper? I can't find it anywhere. ??????

Dave Parker · Sep 27, 2006

I normally just lable mine as a traditional print involving no digital, I have at times labled as a traditional Silver Gelatin Print...

I think either term would convey the same meaning.

Dave

david b · Sep 27, 2006

Well, Santa Fe is a well versed community in the art of photography.

I think I will just go ahead and label them as "silver gelatin".

david b · Sep 27, 2006

DannL, fiber or rc photo paper is silver gelatin paper. Go to the Ilford website for more details.

RobLewis · Sep 27, 2006

DannL said:
I can also make gelatin and albumen paper at home. But, where can I buy the so called "silver gelatin" paper? I can't find it anywhere. ??????

awww crap. Now I'm really confused. Gelatin refers to a kind of paper? I thought "gelatin-silver" was a reference to the chemicals used in the developer.
Just when I thought I was starting to get it...
I think I like the "traditional print". When the MOMA has my Gallery opening this weekend I'll just label them that way.

DieHipsterDie · Sep 27, 2006

Here ya go:

http://www.blackandwhitelab.com/tips_pages/silver_gelatin.htm

Another description:

Standard black and white prints made using silver halides suspended in gelatin. (ie: not using a chromogenic process)

Fine art photographers always seem to refer to their black and white prints as silver gelatin prints. It’s a technically accurate name, of course, and shows the print wasn’t made using a chromogenic or antique process, but I have the suspicion that it’s meant to make the print technology sound fancier than it is.

Silver gelatin is just a fancy term for a print made on true black and white paper.

david b · Sep 27, 2006

Silver paper such as Ilford RC or Fiber print paper, is coated with a gelatin that contains light-sensitive silver, hence the name. And for the vegans here on APUG, that gelatin is made from cow bones. (I once heard that Kodak was the largest cow breeder in NY state.)

I don't think "traditional print" is descriptive enough in this day and age.

DieHipsterDie · Sep 27, 2006

RobLewis said:
OK, here's a rookie question that I have been thinking of asking...
I print using Dektol developer, on Ilford MG RC paper. Is this a silver gelatin print?

Yes

lee · Sep 27, 2006

David,

go with either. I prefer Gelatin Silver. This term comes from the curators wanting to identify completely the process.

lee\c

Paul Sorensen · Sep 27, 2006

DieHipsterDie said:
Standard black and white prints made using silver halides suspended in gelatin. (ie: not using a chromogenic process)

Fine art photographers always seem to refer to their black and white prints as silver gelatin prints. Its a technically accurate name, of course, and shows the print wasnt made using a chromogenic or antique process, but I have the suspicion that its meant to make the print technology sound fancier than it is.

Silver gelatin is just a fancy term for a print made on true black and white paper.

I think it has come to mean more than the above quote in the age of digital. I can see why some folks liked it in order to stand out against platinum etc., but it is a very nice way of saying that it is not inkjet. (Until someone starts marketing inkjet cartridges with silver and gelatin in them just like the carbon ones. )

PepMiro · Sep 27, 2006

Only my two cents:

If you want to say "gelatin with silver", then, you can say "silver gelatin"

If you want to say "silver with gelatin", then, "gelatin silver" would be more appropiate.

In my opinion, both are correct but, if you want to give more importance to the gelatin, "silver gelatin" would be more accurate and viceversa.

DieHipsterDie · Sep 27, 2006

Paul Sorensen said:
I think it has come to mean more than the above quote in the age of digital.

I tend to agree with you. A photo that came off a printer as opposed to out of a tray may need to be differentiated. Ink Jet print versus Silver Gelatin print.

DannL · Sep 27, 2006

david b said:
Silver paper such as Ilford RC or Fiber print paper, is coated with a gelatin that contains light-sensitive silver, hence the name. And for the vegans here on APUG, that gelatin is made from cow bones. (I once heard that Kodak was the largest cow breeder in NY state.)

I don't think "traditional print" is descriptive enough in this day and age.

Thanks David. I always assumed they used some polymer based coating. I've always used Ilford paper but never heard mention of gelatin, and still couldn't find mention of it in the RC paper fact sheets. "Closely Held Secrets" I suspect. I would only hope all my papers are free of mad cow disease.

eric · Sep 27, 2006

david b said:
I am about to make the labels for my show and I am not sure which way to list the print: silver-gelatin or gelatin-silver.

Be new! Be the FIRST ONE to call it "GELAVER" or "SILATIN"

Helen B · Sep 27, 2006

lee said:
...This term comes from the curators wanting to identify completely the process.

That's how I first came across it: a simple, fairly accurate way for curators to describe what it was. It was not a pretentious version of 'black and white print'. It has been around for a while - it predates digital inkjet printing and, therefore, was not originally a reaction to it.

Best,
Helen

DannL · Sep 27, 2006

How about "A photograph", which is a term that excludes "ink based prints".

. . . and not to be confused with "An image", which is all encompassing.

Photo Engineer · Sep 27, 2006

All analog photographic products contain a large quantity of cow or pig gelatin. Most products from Kodak and other major companies are made from cow (bone) gelatin.

Kodak does not breed or othwise deal in live cows. They use the ossein (bone) produced by the meat packing industry.

Boy what a myth that one is. Kodak breeding cows! Poor George Eastman would be astonished by that one.

PE

So is it a silver-gelatin or a gelatin-silver print?

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