So I managed to get some Kodak HIE, now what?

Dr.Pain-MD · Aug 26, 2011

Like the title says, I managed to get two rolls of 35mm Kodak HIE at a good price ($20) along with two rolls of Kodak Tech Pan (but that's another story). Now I have to figure out how I'm going to shoot the stuff. This will be my absolute first foray into infrared photography as I've been holding off on it, so I feel like this will be a great opportunity since I'll get to use the now discontinued HIE. I have a few questions for you folks who have worked with this film.

1) I understand that I have to load the film in total darkness because it will get ruined otherwise as the light will "travel" down the leader and the rest of the film, correct?

2) The reason I've been holding off trying IR was the fact that I didn't want to have to purchase an IR filter which I would barely use. From what I've read I can get the typical strong IR effects with HIE with just your regular #25 red filter. Is that right, any special cases (developers, etc) that I need to know about?

3) Here's the big question, what ISO do I shoot it at? What was the standard/box ISO of this film? This brings me to my next question.

4) I currently regularly use D-76 and Rodinal as my developers, but I also have access to T-Max developer. What would be a good choice and what should I be doing with the developing times (related to question #3)?

5) Regarding the IR effects, when/what should I shoot to benefit the most from its IR capabilities. I've read that a sunny (no clouds) day is best and I know that foliage goes nuts with IR. How about people, do skin tones do anything interesting? How about buldings, wood, stone, brick, etc?

Thanks!

EDIT: I'll most likely be shooting with my Nikon FE, so I'll have TTL metering. Not sure if that matters, but who knows.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 26, 2011

Dr.Pain-MD said:
Like the title says, I managed to get two rolls of 35mm Kodak HIE at a good price ($20)

Now I have to figure out how I'm going to shoot the stuff. This will be my absolute first foray into infrared photography as I've been holding off on it, so I feel like this will be a great opportunity since I'll get to use the now discontinued HIE. I have a few questions for you folks who have worked with this film.

1) I understand that I have to load the film in total darkness because it will get ruined otherwise as the light will "travel" down the leader and the rest of the film, correct?

2) The reason I've been holding off trying IR was the fact that I didn't want to have to purchase an IR filter which I would barely use. From what I've read I can get the typical strong IR effects with HIE with just your regular #25 red filter. Is that right, any special cases (developers, etc) that I need to know about?

3) Here's the big question, what ISO do I shoot it at? What was the standard/box ISO of this film? This brings me to my next question.

4) I currently regularly use D-76 and Rodinal as my developers, but I also have access to T-Max developer. What would be a good choice and what should I be doing with the developing times (related to question #3)?

5) Regarding the IR effects, when/what should I shoot to benefit the most from its IR capabilities. I've read that a sunny (no clouds) day is best and I know that foliage goes nuts with IR. How about people, do skin tones do anything interesting? How about buldings, wood, stone, brick, etc?

Thanks!

EDIT: I'll most likely be shooting with my Nikon FE, so I'll have TTL metering. Not sure if that matters, but who knows.

1) Subdued light is OK for loading the film. It doesn't have to be total darkness.

I never had any problems.

2) A regular 25A red filter is fine.

3) Forget about ISO. A good start on a sunny day with a 25A filter is 1/125th of a second at f/11. Bracket a stop each side to make sure you have a usable negative to enlarge.

4) D-76 or Rodinal should work fine. I always used D-76 without dilution and developed for 11 minutes at 20*C. I know that Kodak suggest 8.5 minutes, but it always came out too flat for me.

5) You will find out for yourself soon how the subjects you mentioned will record. Some clouds help to make the sky look more dramatic because of the difference in contrast. Have fun.

perkeleellinen · Aug 26, 2011

You should load and unload in total darkness. If your camera has a little window to see the film type you should mask it. Certain cameras that read DX code may fog the film - from memory, I think there was often talk about some EOS models doing this.

I set my camera to ASA 400 and meter through a red 25 filter.

Midday seems best for IR. Especially after rain in spring time.

I develop in HC110.

Bill Burk · Aug 26, 2011

Hi Dr.Pain-MD,

I'll let others help with technical matters. I just know that two of my favorite pictures with it were taken in the mountains. So in addition to foliage... distant mountain ranges and lakes go nuts. Have fun!

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 26, 2011

Kodak technical data publication for HIE.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f13/f13.pdf

Dr.Pain-MD · Aug 26, 2011

Thanks, everyone! I'll keep all that in mind. I really hate bracketing, but I guess I'll do it if I feel like I'll have a good shot in mind. Seeing how you say to start at f11 and 1/125 on a sunnyday, it works out to an ISO of 400 using the sunny-16 rule. That seems to be the consensus based on all the stuff I've seen around the web, I'll use that as a starting point. How about focusing, should I worry too much about using the IR focus point and all that jazz?

Keith Tapscott. said:
Kodak technical data publication for HIE.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f13/f13.pdf

I went through that earlier, but it's very ambiguous on the exposure. Thanks for the rec though!

Bill Burk said:
Hi Dr.Pain-MD,

I'll let others help with technical matters. I just know that two of my favorite pictures with it were taken in the mountains. So in addition to foliage... distant mountain ranges and lakes go nuts. Have fun!

We have plenty of those here, I'll do my best.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 26, 2011

Dr.Pain-MD said:
Thanks, everyone! I'll keep all that in mind. I really hate bracketing, but I guess I'll do it if I feel like I'll have a good shot in mind. Seeing how you say to start at f11 and 1/125 on a sunnyday, it works out to an ISO of 400 using the sunny-16 rule. That seems to be the consensus based on all the stuff I've seen around the web, I'll use that as a starting point.

How about focusing, should I worry too much about using the IR focus point and all that jazz?

I went through that earlier, but it's very ambiguous on the exposure. Thanks for the rec though!

We have plenty of those here, I'll do my best.

My favourite lens for using HIE was my 35mm, so that or wider-angle lenses will work fine when focussed normally for landscapes with the aperture stopped down around f/11.

You need to shoot a roll and see for yourself.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 26, 2011

Check out the photos made by Kathy Harcom. Her book 'Light Sensitive' is worth buying if you are interested in her technique for using Kodak HIE infra-red and regular B&W films.
http://www.kathyharcom.com/

winger · Aug 26, 2011

Load and unload in total darkness. Way better to be safe than sorry.
I frequently get decent results by setting iso 200, but it really depends. f11 at 1/125 is a good start, too.
I use Sprint developer. It's basically a D-76 clone, so that should work as well. I use Sprint at 1:9 for 11 1/2 minutes, IIRC. Massive development chart was way off for me.
The Laurie White book helped me a lot. It also has a lot of understandable info on how film in general works.

Mackinaw · Aug 26, 2011

I can tell you what I do. I stocked up on HIE once it was officially discontinued so still shoot it regularly. As for exposure, for bright sunny days and using a red 25a filter, I use F9.5 at 1/125. With a 87C filter (totally opaque) I use F6.3 at 1/125. I don't even bother to bracket, if it's bright and sunny, these exposes almost always work.

I process the film in Xtol 1:1.

Jim B.

smieglitz · Aug 26, 2011

My experience: sunny day f/13ish @1/125 with a #25 red filter. Develop it in HC110 dilution B for 5.5-6 minutes @ 68F. (Paterson plastic tanks are OK.) Definitely load and unload it in total darkness and don't use an EOS with the film sensor in the camera because it will fog. HIE lacks an anti-halation coating and any light hitting the film, including the leader, scatters through it. I've witnessed numerous rolls of students' film ruined by not loading/unloading in total darkness. I've also heard the cartridge felt is transparent to IR but that may just be urban legend. Why take a chance?

Personally, I think D-76 gives poor results with this film. (D76 1+1 for 13minutes @ 68F I believe was the recommendation I used.) I like the contrast much better with HC-110 B. I never used a meter with the stuff and think any success doing so is probably as much luck as anything else.

Small apertures like the aforementioned f/11-f/16 will help reduce any focus shift effect.

donbga · Aug 26, 2011

Dr.Pain-MD said:
Like the title says, I managed to get two rolls of 35mm Kodak HIE at a good price ($20) along with two rolls of Kodak Tech Pan (but that's another story). Now I have to figure out how I'm going to shoot the stuff. This will be my absolute first foray into infrared photography as I've been holding off on it, so I feel like this will be a great opportunity since I'll get to use the now discontinued HIE. I have a few questions for you folks who have worked with this film.

1) I understand that I have to load the film in total darkness because it will get ruined otherwise as the light will "travel" down the leader and the rest of the film, correct?

2) The reason I've been holding off trying IR was the fact that I didn't want to have to purchase an IR filter which I would barely use. From what I've read I can get the typical strong IR effects with HIE with just your regular #25 red filter. Is that right, any special cases (developers, etc) that I need to know about?

3) Here's the big question, what ISO do I shoot it at? What was the standard/box ISO of this film? This brings me to my next question.

4) I currently regularly use D-76 and Rodinal as my developers, but I also have access to T-Max developer. What would be a good choice and what should I be doing with the developing times (related to question #3)?

5) Regarding the IR effects, when/what should I shoot to benefit the most from its IR capabilities. I've read that a sunny (no clouds) day is best and I know that foliage goes nuts with IR. How about people, do skin tones do anything interesting? How about buldings, wood, stone, brick, etc?

Thanks!

EDIT: I'll most likely be shooting with my Nikon FE, so I'll have TTL metering. Not sure if that matters, but who knows.

Load and unload the film in Total Darkness.

A #25 Red filter is good, a #29 filter is better.

I shot this film for many years (and I'm curious where you obtained the film at this late date) and pyro developer worked best for me. I don't recommend D-76 or Rodinal. 12.5 m @75F in PMK worked nicely.

Any HIE you find today is way out of date so it's difficult to predict what results you will get. IMO, all of the other so called IR films on the market today suck. Back in the day best results were had when the film was processed within 24 hours of exposure.

mooseontheloose · Aug 26, 2011

So many suggestions!

I shoot most of my HIE in a Nikon FE (like you) with a red 25 filter and get great resutlts with that. I tend to shoot it at 320 or 400 ISO through the filter (although the f/11 at 1/125 tends to work too). I've developed it in D-76 (stock) and Xtol (1:1) and prefer it in D-76 (11 min). I've loaded the film in daylight, subdued light, and in total darkness. While I've been lucky sometimes with the loading in light, don't take a chance here. You only have two rolls -- why ruin them when you can do the right thing to prevent fogging?

Also, while foliage is an obvious thing to shoot with infrared, don't just shoot it to get an 'infrared' shot -- if it's not an interesting scene in normal black and white or colour, then it won't really be in infrared either (although there are some exceptions). Try shooting people, any kind of motion (you can handhold your camera while shooting this film, unlike others), etc. Some water in the image also looks great, as does old wood. Don't be afraid of lightly cloudy days -- even if you can't see the sky, the film will. Although there will be less infrared light on cloudy days, so you may need to overexpose to compensate. And of course there's lots of infrared light late in the day when the shadows are longer and more interesting -- this is also a great time to shoot.

Good luck!

So I managed to get some Kodak HIE, now what?

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