So hard to start up with film!

Well, I am a Master degreed Chemist who works with chemicals all day long. I guess doing it at home wouldnt be so bad. But color is my main focus and that is more complicated than black and white.

Actually, C-41 really isn't any more complicated than B&W. I'd say given the slightly different considerations in developing each, they're about the same. C-41 just looks more problematic. But it's actually easy and so very rewarding!

RattyMouse said:

Can you share your processing experiences?

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Sure. 1 year ago I would take my film -- any film except 4x5 C41 -- to a lab that was 3 miles away and it would get processed/printed to my specs at a good price and at acceptable quality. Everything except 120 prints had an overnight (or sooner) turnaround. 120 prints took 48 hours.

They closed.

Now I take 35mm C41 to Costco and process cheap, quick, and at acceptable quality.

Now I mail 120 color and B&W to a lab and process at twice the prior price, at acceptable quality, but have to plan for a 4 or 5 day turnaround.

I still working an option for 4x5. 4x5 E6 could go to a lab 30 miles away (1 to 2 hour drive); 4x5 C41 could go to a lab 15 miles away (1 hour drive), and 4x5 B&W could go to a mailorder place I have no experience with.

p.s. Yes, I know I could process at home, etc, etc.

go the next obvious step and process yourself. for film processing you can get away wiyhout a full darkroom, and i feel that my results are better than from any lab ,i know.

Terry Christian said:

Actually, C-41 really isn't any more complicated than B&W. I'd say given the slightly different considerations in developing each, they're about the same. C-41 just looks more problematic. But it's actually easy and so very rewarding!

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+1.

Many say beginners should start with b&w developing then move on to color. In my opinion it is the other way around. You should start with color developing as color is the most common media, and standardized, then learn b&w developing. B&W is much more involved with all its different developers, times, dilutions, papers, contrast control, zone system, etc.

I don't think beginners necessarily need to go analog from the word JUMP. But if it is digital, I think the manual setting should be mandatory for the first year. That way they learn photography, not just their hardware.

Keep it light.
ChrisW

Three points:

(1) As alluded to in earlier posts, color processing has been standardized all along. It's a cookbook exercise, nothing more. And was designed with that constraint in mind. It's b&w that's always been all over the board. Which is the way b&w practitioners like it. And is the reason good b&w is so much more difficult - and fun - to persue.

(2) If you are trying to figure out the resale value of a camera (or anything else) before you even purchase it, perhaps your data is trying to talk to you?? Maybe it's saying you really don't want to buy it in the first place? I'm just sayin'...

(3) On the other hand, if the Earth's history were compressed into a timeline the length of a football field, your lifespan would be only 1/70th the diameter of a human hair. Gazillions of hairs have preceeded you. Gazillions more will come after you're long gone. Why are you waiting again?

(4) Bonus observation. I am on the verge of ringing up a brand new GF670 for myself. Reportedly only 5,000 were made by Fujifilm. It will be my first new camera since the early 80s. What if I place my order in the next ten minutes... and it's the last one available?



Ken

BrianShaw said:

Now I take 35mm C41 to Costco and process cheap, quick, and at acceptable quality.

Now I mail 120 color and B&W to a lab and process at twice the prior price, at acceptable quality, but have to plan for a 4 or 5 day turnaround.

Click to expand...

I process B&W at home. I have darkened my bathroom, and I can process sheet film in trays. Normally I use a Jobo. Yes, I could process color, and I've done so, but the chemicals expire very quickly and normally I just don't use that much color film. Usually it's B&W. If I used a lot of color, then I would process it at home.

BrianShaw said:

I still working an option for 4x5. 4x5 E6 could go to a lab 30 miles away (1 to 2 hour drive); 4x5 C41 could go to a lab 15 miles away (1 hour drive), and 4x5 B&W could go to a mailorder place I have no experience with.

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I use Dead Link Removed, for my 4x5 color. There are no labs in Washington state that process LF color film. Nobody. There are two or three labs locally that handle 120 color, and one of them left what looks like tiny blobs of stabilizer goo on the film.

Yes, I send my LF film across the country. I used to be able to go to downtown Seattle and get it done by a top lab. Of course they're gone. So as long as I have to mail order my processing, I'll go for a lab that has an excellent reputation and a very reasonable price.

RalphLambrecht said:

go the next obvious step and process yourself. for film processing you can get away wiyhout a full darkroom, and i feel that my results are better than from any lab ,i know.

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+1
besides, i'm the only pro lab around that will process anyone's film in caffenol

Can't you take both the Fuji and a digital camera with you into the field? My main tool is my Rollei TLR but I have a Canon FTb with its longer reach and a Lumix GH-1 which also takes the Canon lenses.

If getting lab service for your film becomes impossible, deal with it then but don't let it stop you from following your passion today. I imagine the time will come when your living situation will allow you to process and print at home; think how nice it will be to have those negatives.

Plus, in five years when the GF-670 is selling for 5K on ebay you'll really regret not buying it LOL!

No regrets!!

Thank you EVERYONE again! I've read every reply and have a LOT to think about. Basically I have analyzed my own wants in this situation and have boiled it down to this.

I want everything to be pre-planned with all variables known before I pull the trigger and buy this Fujifilm medium format camera. I want no risk.

That may have been reasonable in the past, but clearly is not today. The film world is just too different. I've been away from film for 10 years or so; much has changed.

So, if I go with the GF670, a lot will be unknown. What is known is that I can start shooting easily. I have access to every possible roll of 120 film still in production. I just dont know where to develop it. All the major labs here in Shanghai have a serious reputation for scratching negatives. There is very little concern for quality. Printing is a huge unknown. There may be somewhere out there that can print. I just dont know where that is. I'll have to search out a developing lab and a printing lab, but in the meantime I can shoot and enjoy that part of the process.

A lot have suggested doing this at home. At the very best I can see doing b & w development at home. Printing at home is not an option at all. I'm not even certain I can print at home as every single room in my house has very very large windows. Even the bathroom. It will take an enormous amount of work to black them out. We'll see.

I am confident that b & w film will be around for as long as I need it. I primarily a color shooter but perhaps when I see the negatives from a 6 X 7 camera, I will like b & w more. Color film is very hard to see into the future. Kodak is the main color shooter and they are in struggling to stay alive now. I find their strategy very very disappointing. I see no future for them but instead a company that is cashing out while they can. Since their film business has not been downsized, I cannot see how they can transfer it to a smaller group of investors. They are still set up for mass scale production. Also, movies are going digital at a phenomenal rate, which will hasten the end of color film. At least Kodak's film. Fujifilm might survive if they pick up the bulk of Kodak's customers.

I am reasonably certain that if I determine again to cease shooting film, then I can resell the GF670 for a decent amount of money. So the overall cost of the camera is not a big deal to me anymore.

What is most important to me, the print, is the most problematic. Ironically, my second choice is also a Fujifilm camera, the Instax 210. OK, stop laughing now. I know that the Fuji Instax film will not even be slightly close to the GF670's prints. But they will be prints. I want real, tangible prints from my time here in China. That is first and foremost my goal. I've been to the shops here that sell film and they also sell the Instax cameras. On the wall are hundreds of prints from the Instax. Surprisingly good compared to what I remember Polariods to look like. The camera is a joke unfortunately. Plastic, cheap feeling, a real toy camera. But it is only $80 so the cost is certainly right. I can shoot enormous amounts of film before I hit the $1600 price of the GF670. I just wish the Instax 210 camera wasnt such an ugly looking toy.

Thanks again everyone. This is a real nice forum. I hope some day to be a film shooter and participate more on the practical end, rather than the theoretical, outsider's end.

Thanks for the follow-up. So often these request-for-everyone's-input threads simply vanish with no known resolution to the OP's stated dilemma. At least we know you really did read and consider everyone's replies - even including the goofy ones.

Good luck with your choice.

(And just don't walk off with that final GF670 before I order!)



Ken

Ken Nadvornick said:

Thanks for the follow-up. So often these request-for-everyone's-input threads simply vanish with no known resolution to the OP's stated dilemma. At least we know you really did read and consider everyone's replies - even including the goofy ones.

Good luck with your choice.

(And just don't walk off with that final GF670 before I order!)



Ken

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Heh heh....there are still a lot of GF670's out there I think. I could buy one today here in China except the price is even more stupid than in the US. Here it's marked up to $2400. The GF670W is selling for $3500 or so. That's just insane. My sister is coming to China in a few weeks and I can have her bring one here if I decide to go that way. That is my deadline to decide. So until that time, it's back and forth and back and forth.

Another option I failed to mention is to buy a real nice printer here in China. As I said before, my #1 concern is high quality prints. Since moving to China I stopped printing my digital files because I didnt want to buy a printer here. I cant take it back to the US with me so did not want to go that way. I need to revisit that option. I have a Fujifilm S5 Pro which is supposed to produce the most analogue looking digital files. I have not had the chance to look at prints from this camera yet.

There is no "zero risk". We can only achieve (variably) "minimal risk"... and/or (variably) "maximal return" on our investments.

To complicate matters further... we must balance the fiscal/time investments/gains with how much we learned academically or artistically (or think we learned) in the process.

Me?? I'm at a loss.....

After doing a quick google search a lot of people seem to be recommending...

Weima pro processing 501 North Wulumuqi Road, Shanghai Hotel Business Bldg, ground floor. Tel: 86 21 62482198, Ext: 2

There's also a Lomo shop...

Lomography Shop, located at No. 126, Jin Xian Road (downtown close to Shanxi Lu Subway Station)

Or you could contact some photographers and agencies in Shanghai and ask them for recommendations, here are some links...

[url]http://www.productionparadise.com/photo-directory/shanghai-photography/photographers.html[/URL]

amsp said:

After doing a quick google search a lot of people seem to be recommending...

Weima pro processing 501 North Wulumuqi Road, Shanghai Hotel Business Bldg, ground floor. Tel: 86 21 62482198, Ext: 2

There's also a Lomo shop...

Lomography Shop, located at No. 126, Jin Xian Road (downtown close to Shanxi Lu Subway Station)

Or you could contact some photographers and agencies in Shanghai and ask them for recommendations, here are some links...

[url]http://www.productionparadise.com/photo-directory/shanghai-photography/photographers.html[/URL]

Click to expand...

Thank you. I will check these when I am out this weekend.