Sniping might have paid off here...

reellis67 · Oct 2, 2005

Satinsnow said:
and by virtue of the auction style(which by the way is a real auction style)

Very interesting. I didn't know there were live auctions that ended at a set time. All the auctions I have been to only ended when there was no one else willing to bid more, hence my comment about working like a real auction. Thanks for the update, I'll have to find one to see what it's like in person!

My comments were really just meant to say that you don't have to be new at fee-bay to not snipe auctions. I always bid the most I am willing to pay when I see the item I am interested in and however it works out it works out.

The bottom line for me is this, I hold no ill feelings toward people that snipe, I just choose not to.

- Randy

Dave Parker · Oct 2, 2005

reellis67 said:
Very interesting. I didn't know there were live auctions that ended at a set time. All the auctions I have been to only ended when there was no one else willing to bid more, hence my comment about working like a real auction. Thanks for the update, I'll have to find one to see what it's like in person!

My comments were really just meant to say that you don't have to be new at fee-bay to not snipe auctions. I always bid the most I am willing to pay when I see the item I am interested in and however it works out it works out.

The bottom line for me is this, I hold no ill feelings toward people that snipe, I just choose not to.

- Randy

Well I guess if you want to call it snipeing, I have place a final bid at a live auction, as the gavel was falling, in hopes that my 50 cent bid would be heard before the gavel has fallen, I really think the term sniping has been brought to the forefront by people who are unhappy because someone beat them out in the final seconds of an auction, wether live or ebay...I have even purchased a car that I wanted while another person was willing to give the asking price and I wanted it, so I offered a bit more than asking price, as I said the best deal in the world is the one that seller and the buyer are happy with..I don't call that unfair, as we all have the ability to pay what we feel an item is worth as long as the seller is willing to accept it. Where I live, we do have three different auction houses that run time based auctions and the bids are open until the time limit runs out, maybe this is where my perception comes from, because the item can sell right until the time limit or until the gavel hits the table. I mean pretty much by definition an auction is just that, a seller puts something up for auction to get as much as they possibly can and a buyer is looking to get something at the best price that can, and it does not matter what format it is, if your wanting to pay the market, then we have the ability to go to a store, any type of auction is set up for just this specific purpose, to bring sellers and buyers together to sell or buy things at a price that is acceptable to both parties.

Sorry, guess just different things in different parts of the world.

Dave

Bob F. · Oct 2, 2005

There are auctions that have a fixed closing time. House purchases in Scotland for example are on a sealed-bid basis: all bids must be in by a certain time and the bids are then opened and the highest bidder wins. Unlike ebay, no one knows what anyone else has bid: essentially, everyone is a sniper...

I do snipe for the reasons given by others above - it reduces the running up of prices by people getting carried away by auction fever. Incidentally, I bid 15 seconds before the auction ends - most snipes go in at the last few seconds so if I bid the same as another sniper, I win... and it's usually too short for a manual bidder to see he has been outbid and increase his bid.

Cheers, Bob.

reellis67 · Oct 2, 2005

Satinsnow said:
I have place a final bid at a live auction, as the gavel was falling, in hopes that my 50 cent bid would be heard before the gavel has fallen
<snip>
Sorry, guess just different things in different parts of the world.

Dave

You're a braver man than me. I would've been worried about getting Heraldo-ed (sp?) with a chair!

I meant nothing by my comments, by the way, other than to say how I bid. Perhaps it is this method of communication that sort of inherently masks inflections that would otherwise been noticed in person. As I stated above, I hold no ill will towards anyone who thinks or act differently than I do.

- Randy

reellis67 · Oct 2, 2005

Also, I used the term 'snipe' because I understood it to be a standard term, rather than a derogatory term. I see now that it could be construed as having negative implications. Sorry about any misunderstanding.

- Randy

Mongo · Oct 2, 2005

Bob F. said:
There are auctions that have a fixed closing time. House purchases in Scotland for example are on a sealed-bid basis: all bids must be in by a certain time and the bids are then opened and the highest bidder wins. Unlike ebay, no one knows what anyone else has bid: essentially, everyone is a sniper...

Not only in Scotland...that's how I bought the house I'm sitting in, right here in Pittsburgh. Perhaps that's why I snipe on eBay...I remember feeling much better when I was bidding on my house that nobody knew my intentions until the lawyer opened the envelopes.

srs5694 · Oct 2, 2005

Bob F. said:
There are auctions that have a fixed closing time. House purchases in Scotland for example are on a sealed-bid basis: all bids must be in by a certain time and the bids are then opened and the highest bidder wins.

This is called a "sealed bid" auction; it's a lot like an eBay auction in which everybody snipes. There's also the "television auction," so called because it's often used by PBS stations in the US for their fund-raising auctions. The auction has a fixed closing time and the highest bid recorded before that moment wins. A third auction type is a "silent auction," in which bidders write down their bids on a piece of paper next to the item. Overall, eBay's auction rules bear some resemblance to all of these.

Rlibersky · Oct 2, 2005

I once accidentally put $1100 in for some 8x10 film. $110 is what I wanted to put in. Fortunately the seller understood my dilemma, or knew I wasn't going to pay it, I will assume the former. He didn't write me up.

moose10101 · Oct 2, 2005

reellis67 said:
If eBay worked like a real auction, it wouldn't matter when you bid, only that you did bid.- Randy

That's the way eBay DOES work. That's the whole point of eBay's proxy bidding system. I've lost auctions to people who placed their one and only bid within an hour of the auction's start. It didn't matter if I bid three seconds or three days before it ended; they won because they bid more than me, not because they bid later.

If you've bid your max, what difference does it make when the bid that beats yours is made?

Nige · Oct 3, 2005

We (Australia) used to have a auction site that actually extended the auction if a bid was made in the last minute or so (I forget the exact timeframe), just like a "real" auction. In a true sign of name recognition and marketing might, eBay entered the Australian market and this particular site closed soon after, probably due to the lack of items listed (and hence income).

I've never used a computer sniper, but manually dueling with another human, can almost be entertainment

srs5694 · Oct 3, 2005

moose10101 said:
If you've bid your max, what difference does it make when the bid that beats yours is made?

IMHO, this is the heart of the matter. As far as I can tell from their comments, those who complain about snipers usually seem to either not get this point or not know what their maximum is. The former situation can be remedied by education about how the proxy bidding system works, but the latter is a recipe for an irrational bidding war. Such bidding wars benefit sellers and eBay, but they certainly don't benefit buyers.

Paul Sorensen · Oct 3, 2005

srs5694 said:
IMHO, this is the heart of the matter. As far as I can tell from their comments, those who complain about snipers usually seem to either not get this point or not know what their maximum is. The former situation can be remedied by education about how the proxy bidding system works, but the latter is a recipe for an irrational bidding war. Such bidding wars benefit sellers and eBay, but they certainly don't benefit buyers.

I do wonder if this isn't part of the reason that eBay discourages the practice. They want to do everything they can to encourage bidding wars. Heck, when you bid and are highest, they are already trying to encourage you to bid again. Also they sure do like to congratulate the "winner" of an auction. I have a hard time seeing how the person who ends up winning an auction deserves congratulations for their victory. They just love the idea of competetion and what it can do to their bottom line.

Dave Parker · Oct 3, 2005

Paul Sorensen said:
I do wonder if this isn't part of the reason that eBay discourages the practice. They want to do everything they can to encourage bidding wars. Heck, when you bid and are highest, they are already trying to encourage you to bid again. Also they sure do like to congratulate the "winner" of an auction. I have a hard time seeing how the person who ends up winning an auction deserves congratulations for their victory. They just love the idea of competetion and what it can do to their bottom line.

Yes, ebay promotes as much bidding as they possibly can, they are in business to make money, and that they do, a whole heck of alot of it!

But ultimately, it is up to the bidder, we are all responsible for our action, no matter who is doing the encouraging, if you bid to much, or more than you can realistically afford, you really have no one to blame but yourself...

Every auction, when I choose to participate, has a set spending limit that I impose on myself when I decide to bid, if I go over that budget, I sure can't blame ebay..

Dave

Paul Sorensen · Oct 3, 2005

Satinsnow said:
Yes, ebay promotes as much bidding as they possibly can, they are in business to make money, and that they do, a whole heck of alot of it!

But ultimately, it is up to the bidder, we are all responsible for our action, no matter who is doing the encouraging, if you bid to much, or more than you can realistically afford, you really have no one to blame but yourself...

Every auction, when I choose to participate, has a set spending limit that I impose on myself when I decide to bid, if I go over that budget, I sure can't blame ebay..

Dave

True enough. I was just wondering if this is a part of the root of the concept that sniping is bad. (I guess I should have mentioned that. ) If eBay convinces folks that it is a regrettable fact of an auction rather than a legitimate strategy employed by folks who have a specific limit and don't want to be sucked into going over their limit.

derevaun · Oct 3, 2005

Charles Webb said:
when you are in an auction you know who the bidders are and can read their interest in the item, and bid accordingly, to me there is a great deal of of difference! On ebay to be successful you you hide your identity and interest to in my mind "steal" the item at the lowest possible price.

Your first example is an English auction, in which bids are made somewhat publicly and it ends when everybody but the winner drops out. But an Ebay auction is not an English auction, and they don't claim that it is. It's a lot closer to a silent auction, in which bidders write in bids until a firm closing time. Like an English auction, there are strategies that work and some that don't. It's still pretty common to see bids nibbled up and winner's curse at silent auctions.

I guess the main difference between a "live" silent auction and Ebay is that for the former I'm sober during bidding and inebriated when the winner is announced; for the latter it's the reverse

scratchee · Oct 12, 2005

Charles...

"Sniping" -- a phrase I hadn't heard until recently -- is actually SOP for me. I don't do it to save a nickel...I do it to get the item that I want. I usually don't feel like bidding week after week for an item that I keep getting outbid on. I'm not sure what you find disgusting about that, but the proxy bidding system (which used to be optional) can save you from all that anyway. Just bid your maximum amount, and if a "sniper" takes the item and you wish you'd had more time to bid, then your bid wasn't high enough in the first place.

I don't do machine sniping, though.

Sniping might have paid off here...

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