Smell of chemicals

redbandit · Dec 3, 2022

Ive been using eco pro paper developer, stop bath and fixer, supposed to be very low smell. But with film its barely noticeable. Really dont use it much, and get limited exposure.

With paper processing, the smell is actually INCREASING in strength as i use them. Ive just been using a 2 litre bottle of each and just pour the 6-7 ounces needed to fill my cibachrome tube. When day is done just dump the liqoud back in. The mixed up chemicals i have should be, according to the labels, good enough to process 60 sheets of 8x10 paper before exhaustion.

As i use them the smell has increased. The stop bath and fixer went from barely noticed, to be stuck my head in a bag of salt and vinegar chips and a box of matches. Is this a sign of chemical exhaustion?

koraks · Dec 4, 2022

redbandit said:
Is this a sign of chemical exhaustion?

Not necessarily, no.

It's common to have e.g. a sulfite smell (it's sulfurous, kind of tangy/slightly burning) emanate from stop & fix which is generally just the sulfite from the developer being carried over in consecutive baths and being broken down partly there. Even in a low-odor chemistry set this kind of interaction will occur. This is likely the 'box of matches' smell you described. In itself, it does not signify the chemistry being exhausted.

The vinegar smell is likely a red herring / misidentification. Eco-pro stop bath is citric-acid based and their fixer apparently only contains ammonium thiosulfate and sulfite. Hence, no source of acetic acid in sight (it certainly wouldn't be in the developer). If you still smell vinegar, you're either mistaking something else for smelling of vinegar, or you may be smelling vinegar from another source, such as household vinegar used for cleaning / descaling.

redbandit · Dec 4, 2022

koraks said:
Not necessarily, no.

It's common to have e.g. a sulfite smell (it's sulfurous, kind of tangy/slightly burning) emanate from stop & fix which is generally just the sulfite from the developer being carried over in consecutive baths and being broken down partly there. Even in a low-odor chemistry set this kind of interaction will occur. This is likely the 'box of matches' smell you described. In itself, it does not signify the chemistry being exhausted.

The vinegar smell is likely a red herring / misidentification. Eco-pro stop bath is citric-acid based and their fixer apparently only contains ammonium thiosulfate and sulfite. Hence, no source of acetic acid in sight (it certainly wouldn't be in the developer). If you still smell vinegar, you're either mistaking something else for smelling of vinegar, or you may be smelling vinegar from another source, such as household vinegar used for cleaning / descaling.

I do get sulphite smell, i dont tolerate sulphite well and it would explain the near constant headache i have had for the last 4 days.

But the stop bath does indeed smell like vinegar now.

koraks · Dec 4, 2022

Well, as said, there's no vinegar (acetic acid) in the photo chemistry if you indeed use Eco pro. So one of the following applies:
* Misidentification of the smell; it's not really acetic acid.
* The stop bath is not Eco Pro, but one based on acetic acid.
* There's another source of acetic acid in your (makeshift) darkroom; possibly cleaning vinegar.

redbandit · Dec 4, 2022

koraks said:
Well, as said, there's no vinegar (acetic acid) in the photo chemistry if you indeed use Eco pro. So one of the following applies:
* Misidentification of the smell; it's not really acetic acid.
* The stop bath is not Eco Pro, but one based on acetic acid.
* There's another source of acetic acid in your (makeshift) darkroom; possibly cleaning vinegar.

only using eco pro, came in factory bottles from freestyle.

mshchem · Dec 4, 2022

Salt and vinegar potato chips are horrible. If you are huffing bags of chips this could be the cause of your troubles

koraks · Dec 4, 2022

redbandit said:
only using eco pro, came in factory bottles from freestyle.

koraks said:
Well, as said, there's no vinegar (acetic acid) in the photo chemistry if you indeed use Eco pro. So one of the following applies:
* Misidentification of the smell; it's not really acetic acid.
* The stop bath is not Eco Pro, but one based on acetic acid.
* There's another source of acetic acid in your (makeshift) darkroom; possibly cleaning vinegar.

One down, two more to go.

redbandit · Dec 4, 2022

koraks said:
One down, two more to go.

dont store vinegar in bathroom, and dont clean with it. Well a monthly clean on my shaving brush, but thats done in the kitchen sink

koraks · Dec 4, 2022

So that leaves one option: it's not a vinegar smell. That leaves the sulfite, and yes, it can be an irritant. Ventilate your work area well and limit exposure to it.

Rick A · Dec 4, 2022

I've been using EcoPro Clear Stop citric acid stop and Neutral fixer exclusively for years, I don't smell anything and I use them in open trays for a couple of hours at a time.

pentaxuser · Dec 4, 2022

Any ideas, redbandit, from what has been written so far as to why you notice what may be a stop bath smell or a sulphite smell vinegar from paper processing and much more importantly what you might need to do to solve or mitigate your problem?

pentaxuser

mshchem · Dec 4, 2022

Doe's sodium sulfite have an odor? When I smell fixer I always assumed it was a sulfide odor. I don't know. I use Kodak rapid fix, I have enough ventilation and a large enough room the odor doesn't bother me.

Regular old Kodak powdered fixer, F-5, is a great fixer but smells horrible.

rcphoto · Dec 4, 2022

Side note, anyone remember the vanilla scented stop bath? I cant remember who made it but i bought some and was not impressed. Good idea though.

Jay Schrotenboer · Dec 4, 2022

rcphoto said:
Side note, anyone remember the vanilla scented stop bath? I cant remember who made it but i bought some and was not impressed. Good idea though.

I believe sprint makes the vanilla smelling fixer

Maris · Dec 4, 2022

The basic chemical theory is that acid fixers give off a whiff of sulfur dioxide and alkaline fixers give off ammonia. A neutral fixer at pH 7 gives off neither and is essentially odourless. A fixer formula that is intended to be neutral needs to be strongly buffered to pH 7. If enough acid stop bath is carried over into the fixer to defeat the buffer reserve then the fixer goes acid and gives off sulfur dioxide.
The solution to the problem is to keep the stop bath from mixing with the fixer, perhaps via an intermediate water rinse.

mshchem · Dec 4, 2022

Maris said:
The basic chemical theory is that acid fixers give off a whiff of sulfur dioxide and alkaline fixers give off ammonia. A neutral fixer at pH 7 gives off neither and is essentially odourless. A fixer formula that is intended to be neutral needs to be strongly buffered to pH 7. If enough acid stop bath is carried over into the fixer to defeat the buffer reserve then the fixer goes acid and gives off sulfur dioxide.
The solution to the problem is to keep the stop bath from mixing with the fixer, perhaps via an intermediate water rinse.

That's good info, thanks!

nosmok · Dec 5, 2022

I use EcoPro Neutral Fixer (from Freestyle) after Caffenol developers, and always check for a smell I call "aggressive tuna sandwich" when I pour out the fixer. It's not overpowering, you have to get close to really smell it, but it's there. When it gets really faint that's a sign to mix a new fixer batch. EcoPro Neutral isn't odorless under all circumstances, is what I'm saying.

faberryman · Dec 5, 2022

The smell of chemicals is part of the charm of working in the darkroom. Don't sanitize the experience. Toning in polysulfide toner is an exception. You'll want to do that on the back porch.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 5, 2022

Make sure your workspace is well ventilated. I sometimes slap on a respirator for those looooong sessions

VinceInMT · Dec 5, 2022

faberryman said:
The smell of chemicals is part of the charm of working in the darkroom. Don't sanitize the experience…..

When I mention that I still do film to someone who used to, long ago, that is usually their first memory: the smell. The odors don’t bother me but if they did I’d up the ventilation in my darkroom.

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