Smartphone app to measure shutter speed

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DonW

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I have only seen one and all it really does is record the shutter sound. I want something that uses light.

The setup could be light source on the front side of camera, camera and then smartphone camera behind film gate.

I would imagine you would put the phone into movie mode, start recording, trip the shutter and then have the program calculate the time light was present in the movie.

Not being a cellphone app developer myself maybe someone knows a more elegant way of doing it.

Given that most of us are using older cameras it would be useful to know how our cameras or lens shutters are doing.

I realize there are standalone shutter speed testers out there but I feel a smartphone based one would be useful for most of us.
 
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The movie mode would have to record high speed frames per second. If it only recorded let's say 60fps, you wouldn't be able to distinguish much above 1/60th of a second. For example, my SOny RX100M4 can recoird super high speed at 960 framers per second. I haven't tried it. but I suppose I could record light going through other cameras shutters up to 1/1000 and get a good idea of accuracy.

As an aside, I have used my cellphone recorder and scoped the sound using Audacity program to calculate the speed. It's accurate up to around 1/125 or so.
 
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DonW

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Maybe video isn't the answer but I'm sure there is some smart person out there that can hack the camera app to measure light burst durations.
 
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DonW

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Thanks, but like I said I know there are standalone devices that do this. Heck I built one in the 70's that we used in a camera store I worked in. I am looking for an Android or iOS app.
 
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DWThomas

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To me, a part of the problem is the rather limited hardware connectivity offered by the current run of small portable devices. If the smart-whatever could take an external microphone, the sensing circuit linked above could be connected through a capacitor to block DC and one could see start and stop spikes with "some sort of app." Funny, back in the day, there was an app for a PC with the traditional old parallel printer port that could function as a crude 8-bit logic analyzer, but now everything is WiFi or BlueTooth and magic. :whistling:

I acquired the parts to do a sensor about five years ago and have yet to do anything with them. I suspect something deep down inside me doesn't really want to know!
 

Bormental

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@DonW smartphones do not have any sensors on them to measure light at high speed. An app like this cannot be made. Photoplug is the closest you can get.

Maybe video isn't the answer but I'm sure there is some smart person out there that can hack the camera app to measure light burst durations.

It can't be done. Source: I am the smart person who makes these things.
 
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DonW

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@DonW smartphones do not have any sensors on them to measure light at high speed. An app like this cannot be made. Photoplug is the closest you can get.



It can't be done. Source: I am the smart person who makes these things.

I love it when someone tells me something is impossible.
 

wiltw

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There are oscilloscope apps for smartphones... the concept is to have an optical sensor positioned at the focal plane, and it provides input to the oscilloscope that shows waveform rise when shutter opens, and waveform drop when shutter closes. The width of the rise is the time duration that light is striking the photo sensor...simple computation to turn that into a shutter speed (wavefore rise time in milliseconds / 1000 = fraction of a second) The question then is the circuit with the photosensor, with electrical connection to mic input on phone.

Use of the smartphone camera in lieu of the photosensor circuit would make it a self-contained app with no external circuitry involved. There are things on the web about smartphone use as an oscilloscope, used in conjunction with external inpur, but I haven't found (in the small amount I tried) something using the camera as the inpur sensor.

I understand the desireablilty to check your camera shutter speeds. The downside is the obsessive-compulsives who cannot live with their speeds not being as marked.
 
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DonW

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I had to laugh when Bormental told me "it can't be done". Back in he 70's I had a prof try and fail me on a paper where I postulated that video would be run through computers. He stomped his feet and railed that it would never happen. EVER!!! I am sure some sharp engineer will be able to figure out my wish within the next 6 months. Maybe sooner if there is a sound business case for it. I have some friends who are top engineers in the development of smartphones. I am going to forward the challenge to them. I will bet dimes to donuts existing phones can be hacked to do just what I am looking for.
 
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Bormental

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Back in he 70's I had a prof try and fail me on a paper where I postulated that video would be run through computers. He stomped his feet and railed that it would never happen.

I am better than your professor. I am not predicting the future, I'm educating you on the present.

I had to laugh when Bormental told me "it can't be done".

Stop laughing and listen. That's what you do when Bormental says about anything computer-related. It's good for you. And then you thank me, because I answered your question correctly.
 
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wiltw

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[sigh] such absolute certainty...what I described in Post 11, just taken from the web:

"Shutter-Speed" is an App which allows you to measure the shutter speeds of your cameras simply with your smartphone. There is no need for a PC or bulky equipment. The App is available for both iOS and android-devices. There are two ways of using the App, either with or without the Photoplug hardware. When you use the app without the extra hardware, it monitors the sound that the camera makes. Analysis of this sound enables you to estimate the shutter speed. This is not particularly useful.
photoplug.jpg
It's much better with the hardware because the photoplug, that plugs into the microphone input, converts the flash of light from the shutter into electrical signals which are then viewed in the app. With this app you can easily measure shutter speeds up to 1/500s and beyond."​
http://www.artdecocameras.com/resources/shutterspeed/#:~:text=Shutter-Speed App,or without the Photoplug hardware.

And a listing of other apps availalble thru Goole Play app finder
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.plug.photo.shutter_speed&hl=en_US
 
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Bormental

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He doesn't want any sensors, he wants "just an app" that "doesn't use sound but uses light". The only light sensor on a phone is the camera. It doesn't have fast enough readout speed. There's also ambient light sensor. I am not aware of its capabilities because Apple warns developers against it and not letting apps that use it into the app store.

I personally used a sound-measuring app and it worked reasonably well up until about 1/250, and was dead-accurate with slow/sticky speeds of old Mamiya lenses I have acquired.
 
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DWThomas

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I might further comment that in whatever likely use I might have, I would rather have some sort of separate device for stuff I might do once in a blue moon. I've not played with them, but I'd think something like those Arduino sorts of modules could do some interesting stuff. Hell, assuming one can still buy small logic ICs (perhaps a rash assumption by now!) you could probably have a comparator on the light sensor gate a string of BCD counters driven from a 100 uSec clock! As someone who made a living doing embedded system programming at one point in my career, I'm sure I could get really wrapped up in playing with those programmable modules -- that's one reason I haven't done it!

I took a long time to adopt a smart phone and I do appreciate all the neat stuff it can do (albeit here in my little creek valley the actual phone performance sucks to the point of barely usable), but it seems as though every time I turn around there's an update and if a 3rd party app starts acting funny, it wouldn't be the first time. Plus the phones themselves aren't exactly buy it and get ten years out of it items. I may have reached the point of being more dependent on it than I should be (so why add to the dependency!)
 
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DonW

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He doesn't want any sensors, he wants "just an app" that "doesn't use sound but uses light". The only light sensor on a phone is the camera. It doesn't have fast enough readout speed. There's also ambient light sensor. I am not aware of its capabilities because Apple warns developers against it and not letting apps that use it into the app store.

I personally used a sound-measuring app and it worked reasonably well up until about 1/250, and was dead-accurate with slow/sticky speeds of old Mamiya lenses I have acquired.
I'm actually more interested in an Android app. I've never bought into the Apple cult.
 

reddesert

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[sigh] such absolute certainty...what I described in Post 11, just taken from the web:

"Shutter-Speed" is an App which allows you to measure the shutter speeds of your cameras simply with your smartphone. There is no need for a PC or bulky equipment. The App is available for both iOS and android-devices. There are two ways of using the App, either with or without the Photoplug hardware. When you use the app without the extra hardware, it monitors the sound that the camera makes. Analysis of this sound enables you to estimate the shutter speed. This is not particularly useful.
photoplug.jpg
It's much better with the hardware because the photoplug, that plugs into the microphone input, converts the flash of light from the shutter into electrical signals which are then viewed in the app. With this app you can easily measure shutter speeds up to 1/500s and beyond."​
http://www.artdecocameras.com/resources/shutterspeed/#:~:text=Shutter-Speed App,or without the Photoplug hardware.

And a listing of other apps availalble thru Goole Play app finder
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.plug.photo.shutter_speed&hl=en_US

The Photoplug is exactly the thing that people have been linking to in this thread, but it doesn't satisfy DonW because it is external hardware. But a small piece of external hardware is exactly what is needed to solve the problem.

Most smartphones have three easily accessible external inputs, the mic, the audio jack and the camera. The problem with the camera is that it has a limited frame rate, and the frame rate isn't fast enough to test fast shutter speeds (even HD video is likely to top out at 60 fps). The mic and audio jack have a much better sample rate, because you need up to 20 kHz or more to digitize audio input without distortion. So either the app has to listen to the mic (but that doesn't work well at high speeds, focal plane shutters, etc), or we need a simple piece of hardware to turn light into an electronic signal that can be routed into the audio jack. One can either buy a Photoplug, or build their own as in the post you quoted.
 
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DonW

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You know , it might just be worth reading this thread from the first reply onwards again .
And maybe don't be so quick to mock the reply's .
I'm not mocking anything beyond someones inflated ego. If it can't be done today, that's true for TODAY. That is not to say it can't be done. If people never asked for anything that can't be done today we would still be living in caves.
 

neilt3

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I'll quote both your reply's to me , even though one has now been deleted off the forum but not out of my email inbox that forum reply's automatically get sent .

Ah sorry if I hurt your feelings :wink:

You didn't hurt my feelings , don't worry .
Having read this thread , as I'm after checking some shutter speeds , I thought it would be handy to have a better stand alone app requiring no hardware .
I did buy one of those devices and it worked well , but I'm dammed if I can find it again !

Those that have replied to you have just stated the facts that at the current time , what your after cannot exist due to hardware limitations .
This is not a software or "app" requirement .

You have just dismissed these reply's as if they are the idiots and not not you . :wink:

Your first sentence of your next reply does give the impression that you are just a grubby little troll trying to goad people after they have tried to help ( and dare I say ? ) and educate , you .
Though I could be mistaken to your intentions .



I'm not mocking anything beyond someones inflated ego. If it can't be done today, that's true for TODAY. That is not to say it can't be done. If people never asked for anything that can't be done today we would still be living in caves.

You asked a question in your OP if any apps were available , other than the fairly limited ones that rely on sound .
Their not .
It was then explained why not .

It's the phone makers , not the app makers that's the problem here .
As no one here is a fortune teller , no one can say if in the future a camera will be made that can measure light at 1/4000th second accurately .
I'm not sure why a camera maker would spend the expense on developing such a feature either .
So I guess you better get back to your cave .
Since the rest of us left the caves , our manners to others also improved as well as our standard of living . Something else for you to learn .
Bye .
 
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DonW

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Neilt3, I love it when you talk dirty to me lol.
 

Denis L

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Movie mode won't work because the frame rate is way too low for any shutter speed above 1/20 or so. The photoplug is probably the best thing, if you still have a headphone jack, but I also want something zero-budget.
I might have an idea that might not give you exact measurements but could still be useful for checking correctness and approximately measure the actual shutter speeds with 1/3 of a light stop or so accuracy (which is all I'd need in practice). I haven't tried it yet so I don't know if it will actually work but I'd love to hear from you.
I'm not aware of an app for this but I was just thinking you could manually already do the following, all you need is a smartphone (or any digital camera) with reliable manual camera controls and a light and maybe a few optional things, like a few strips of something you can safely stick to cover parts of the film gate (this is for a bit more advanced diagnostics). A black bag that doesn't let through light is probably advisable, as well as something to keep the smartphone and the SLR firmly in place during the tests.

Basically the idea is to compare the exposure of the shutter speed of the SLR with the exposure of the same shutter speed on the phone.

Setup: you place your phone behind the film gate, like you originally suggested, and open the camera app and go to fully manual mode. The only light source should be in front of the SLR's lens, and the only light going into the phone camera should come through the SLR's film gate (this is where some sort of a dark bag could help; alternatively, it would probably also work if you use a (cheap LED) flashlight pointed into the SLR lens in a dark room).

How to test: the test consists of three parts: (1) creating a reference photo using the smartphone's shutter and (2) creating a test photo using the SLR's shutter and (3) comparing. These photos don't need to be focused because we will be comparing average brightness anyway, so it's even best to be as blurry as possible. The (1) reference photo can be created by fully opening the SLR shutter while taking a picture with the phone's shutter speed set to the speed you want to test. Then, (2) the test photo can be created by (i) setting the SLR's shutter speed to the same shutter speed you used in step (1), (ii) taking a picture with the phone's shutter speed set to multiple seconds so you have time to (iii) press the SLR's shutter release button. If the average brightness of the reference and test images is the same, and there was no other light coming into the phone's camera that didn't pass through the SLR's shutter, and there was no difference in the physical setup between the two shots, I think we can conclude that the shutter speeds are the same. Now you can run this test across all shutter speeds, even the fastest ones.

Calibration: to find out what the actual shutter speed is closer to (up to 1/3 stop accuracy), you can play around with different shutter speeds on the phone for the reference photo and different ISO's on the phone for the test photo. When you match the average brightness between reference and test by adjusting shutter speed or ISO on the phone, this will tell you how fast the SLR shutter actually is. For example with ISO, if the reference had ISO 100 and shutter speed 1/100 and the ISO needed to match it in test was 200, this means the shutter speed of the SLR was actually 1/200. You should get the same result by adjusting the shutter speed to 1/200 when taking the reference picture and keeping ISO fixed. It would probably be nice to do both to verify.

A bit more advanced testing: I found this article, which points out some problems with the shutter that I hadn't considered before. For example, maybe the shutter curtains are closer together on the left than on the right, which could give the same average brightness but would result in a photo that is underexposed on the left and overexposed on the right (there is a photo in the article illustrating this, at the end of "Level 3". The solution in the article is "Level 4" testing with multiple diodes (btw, you can't do this testing with a photoplug on the phone). But if you have some stripes of something completely opaque and sticky but that doesn't leave traces, you could also try to detect these kinds of problems using our setup. You can simply cover the middle and left part of the film gate (careful not to obstruct the shutter curtain movements!) to test the right side of the shutter curtains, etc. If the shutter curtains are not parallel, the test photos for the right part uncovered will have a different average brightness than the test photo for the left part uncovered.

Testing light metering and auto-exposure: I haven't thought about this, but probably you can use a similar testing methodology. I don't think it would work reliably as-is to test automatic aperture because different apertures would affect the geometry of the light beam, and which part of the beam goes into the phone camera. You would need to somehow optically average the light that would fall on the film (using milky plexiglass maybe?). But to test automatic shutter speed and metering involved there, you could try getting the reference photos using the phone's automatic shutter speed, and compare that to the SLR's. While doing this, the ISO settings on the phone and SLR should be the same.

What do you think?

You could probably simplify this process a bit by developing an app, in particular, for comparing average brightness more scientifically than just eye-balling it, but this procedure would still require a lot of manual work (setting shutter speeds, pressing buttons) so I think an app isn't crucial.

I see it's an old thread but I just ordered my first film SLR on eBay and was wondering how to test it for light leaks, shutter times and light meter and auto-exposure modes on zero budget and without ruining film, which is now getting more and more expensive to buy, develop and digitize. So if you have any tips on zero-budget film SLR testing, please let me know!
 
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