Small Vs. Large Tanks for processing

smo2 · Sep 12, 2007

Is there any reason why I should use a small one (120) tank vs. a large tank? I have developed a number of rolls now and have not had an glaring errors. Is the small tank better? At this rate I will be developing film for the next decade until I have everything done by then I will have to get the chemicals on the black market!

I want to process as many rolls as I can - assume they are the same ISO, type etc. Why should I laboriously process one at a time when I could process 4 or 5 and be done? I could process 4 or 5 at a time and not be done for quite some time. What are the quality factors, if any?

Thanks!

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 12, 2007

No reason at all. It's good to own tanks of various sizes, so you can process different sized batches as needed. My largest holds six medium format rolls. Much larger than that, and you might as well use a cage and a deep tank that can hold 20 or 40 rolls.

Ray Heath · Sep 12, 2007

what?

PhotoSmith · Sep 13, 2007

You should have equally good results with either a small tank or a large one.

One thing to be aware of is the amount of space between the lid and the top of the reel in different tanks. Some of my tanks require an extra 35mm reel in the tank to take up some of the void. Otherwise I get a more vigorous agitation from the reels sliding inside the tank during inversion, and the additional agitation can create more contrast.

This is only a concern if you are very critical with your processing technique and are trying to maintain tight contrast indexes.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Sep 13, 2007

The concept of "large tank" in spec sheets &c usually refers to these multi-gallon tanks that are used to develop commercial-sized batches of film, sheets or roll.

I have different sizes of tank, depending on how many similar rolls I feel like developing at a time. A 2L tank, for example, will require a lot more solution at once than many smaller tanks, so it's up to you to decide whether you like to keep a stash of voluminous amounts of processing solutions, or smaller amounts.

fschifano · Sep 13, 2007

No difference at all, especially if these tanks are plastic. Fill and drain times for these things are very fast, so there's no need to concern yourself with uneven development. The big advantage of using large tanks, aside from the ability to process several films at once, is the ability to use very dilute developers while maintaining sufficient amounts of stock solutions.

An example I like to use is the case of PanF+ in D-76, diluted 1+3. I like to use a minimum of 150 ml. of D-76 for each roll of film. Kodak says you can use less, but after a couple of bad experiences, I'm not comfortable with that recommendation, and it's another story. At 1+3, and with two rolls of film per batch, we're talking a total of 1.2 L of solution for the run.

I've never felt it necessary to fill up the extra space in the tank with empty reels. In SS tanks, I just let them slosh around in the tank. No harm done, and it helps mix things up during the agitation cycles. It does make for a bit of rattling noise though. With plastic tanks, I simply wrap a rubber band around the center core directly above the top reel to keep them from sliding up the axle and out of the solution.

Konical · Sep 13, 2007

Good Morning, Smo2,

As noted above, it's a lot more efficient to process several rolls of film at once, assuming, of course, that the individual rolls are of the same type or require the same developing time.

The larger, taller tanks (those holding eight 35mm/four 120 reels or more) are heavier and somewhat more awkward to handle. In addition, chemical quantities are greater, so you'll need larger containers. If you need to cool them to proper processing temperature, these larger graduates or pitchers can be difficult to fit into the refrigerator; if quick warming is needed, they probably won't fit into a microwave oven. Finally, making a really dumb mistake (accidentally starting with fixer, for example) means a lot more ruined images.

Konical

Ian Grant · Sep 13, 2007

Just make sure that when you use a larger tank the spirals can't ride up and down on the centre column if the tank is only partially filled with chemicals.

Ian

smo2 · Sep 13, 2007

Good to know

Thanks for the info - I think I will pick one up ASAP. Makes my life a lot easier. When I said "large" I meant one that holds 5 or 6 medium format rolls. Any brands that people love or hate? I will be sticking with plastic.

Thanks again.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 13, 2007

I prefer stainless, myself--Hewes reels or older Kindermann reels in good condition are the best, in my opinion. The tanks are fairly standard, and as long as they haven't been seriously dented, are pretty much indestructable, so there isn't any downside to buying older ones, which were quite expensive when they were new, particularly if they are large. I usually put new Kindermann lids on them, which fill and dump faster than many of the older lids.

With the tanks that hold 4 and 6 medium format rolls, I usually fill it with developer, drop in the reels on a lift rod, close the tank, and proceed in daylight as normal.

If you go stainless, there are reels for 120 and 220 that are the same size. Modern 220 Hewes reels have the same thickness of wire as 35mm reels (there were older stainless 220 reels that required a larger tank), and they work fine for 120, so if you think you might ever use 220, you might look at 220 reels.

DKT · Sep 13, 2007

another way to use them is with the reels in on a liftrod--develop in the dark without the lid(s) on. you can just use one tank and pour the chemistry in & out, or use several tanks for the different steps. at any rate, it's quicker to get the chemistry in & out this way, rather than pouring it through the lid. of course, you need a dark room...5-6 120 reels is a pretty big tank though, if stacked vertically. that's basically the size of a third of a 2 gallon deeptank (I use one of these and it can run about 12-15 120 reels). if you have a darkroom--I worked in a lab long ago, that used PVC drain pipe (4 inch) cut in sections, and used the purple primer & adhesive stuff to hold on end caps at the bottom. s.s. reels on liftrods fit perfectly down inside. you just need a way to set them up, but they don't temper as well as s.s.

Konical · Sep 13, 2007

Good Morning, Smo2,

I would second David's comments on tanks and reels. Remember also that SS tanks typically require a somewhat smaller volume of chemicals. One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that a larger (taller) film washer, while not absolutely essential, makes things a lot more efficient. I have a Wat-Air model which handles, if I recall correctly, at least five or six 120 reels.

Konical

erl · Sep 13, 2007

With very little practice, you can actually load 2 - 120's into each 220 reel. With a 5 reel tank I am able to process 10 120's or 5 220's. Never had a problem. Just ensure the second film does not overlap the first when loading onto the reel.

PhotoSmith · Sep 13, 2007

Another suggestion is to use a water pre-soak with the larger tanks if you are pouring the developer through the lids instead of dropping the reels into pre filled tanks. You will need to add about 30 seconds to your normal development time because it will take that long for the developer to displace the water in the pre soaked emulsion. The pre soak will give you more even development.

sbandone · Sep 13, 2007

If you are considering using Jobo tanks it is better to use the 2521 or 2523 larger diameter series than the 1500 series. They are more expensive, but use the same amount of chemistry, the spirals are easier to load as the tracks are wider, thus allowing more even development of the edges.
Larger tanks are easier to clean out the small particles - you can see them.

One problem with large tanks is the filling time - the effect is to start development at one end of the tank 15 secs or so before the other. This is quite noticeable on the developed films especially colour where times are short
I have had problems when rotary processing when the red end caps burst off the 1500 series drums during development of colour film resulting in loss of solution- this does not happen with the 2500 design. Whilst you can process several 120 rolls in a tank you increase the risk of failure if you get one factor wrong.

I think there is more risk of dust or particles being transferred in the tank with multiples.

You have to balance the cost of taking the pictures including flights hire cars and your valuable time against the impatience factor in trying to do it all in rapid time! - Quality is everything

Roger Hicks · Sep 13, 2007

mhv said:
The concept of "large tank" in spec sheets &c usually refers to these multi-gallon tanks that are used to develop commercial-sized batches of film, sheets or roll.

Dear Michel,

Exactly. Tubular tanks that hold 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 spools for daylight processing are still regarded as 'small tanks' for these purposes. 'Large tanks' held large quantities (4l +) of fully seasoned developers (replenished, equilibrium for hydrobromic acid restraint, a stop lost in ISO speed) and are a different animal.

Cheers,

R.

Dave Miller · Sep 13, 2007

I have a set of Paterson tanks, and use them for 120 film, which I load two to a reel. This allows me to develop up to 10 films at a time.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/patersondarkroom-details3.htm

Chazzy · Sep 13, 2007

Dave Miller said:
I have a set of Paterson tanks, and use them for 120 film, which I load two to a reel. This allows me to develop up to 10 films at a time.

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/patersondarkroom-details3.htm

How does one get the first roll of 120 down to the inner spirals before loading the second, and how can one tell in the dark that there is enough room remaining to start loading the second roll of 120? My Jobo 1501 reels have a red tab which is used to prevent the second roll from overlapping the first, but I can't imagine how one would tell in the dark that the first roll was in its proper position. I would love to see a little video showing how this is done, if such a thing were available.

erl · Sep 30, 2007

Chazzy, I could say "it's the way you hold your mouth that makes the difference", but I don't think you would believe me! What I do is feel when the tail of the film enters the spiral slot and then keep winding. I count how many revolutions it takes for the tail to 'come around again' until the leadeer reaches "the inner end." On my reels it is 2+ revs. I then click that little red thingy in to stop the second film passing it. That's all! Voila!!

You could try loading a dummy or processed (uncut) film in the light to see what and where it it all at, but you can feel when the first film 'hits the wall' so to speak. And if it has not, during the loading of the second film onto the reel, the first will continue if it has not already got there. The next level of safety is that if the second leader does overlap the first tail, you will feel the extra resistance and stop. That small overlap is OK because there are no images right at the ends.

Cheers,
Erl

Dave Miller · Sep 30, 2007

Chazzy said:
How does one get the first roll of 120 down to the inner spirals before loading the second, and how can one tell in the dark that there is enough room remaining to start loading the second roll of 120? My Jobo 1501 reels have a red tab which is used to prevent the second roll from overlapping the first, but I can't imagine how one would tell in the dark that the first roll was in its proper position. I would love to see a little video showing how this is done, if such a thing were available.

I've only just found this question. My answer is that I push the first 120 film around the Patterson spiral until it won't go any further, then I load the second film in behind it. I found that if I relied on the second film pushing the first out of the way it sometimes rode over the top and interfered with the development of one or both. I have tried joining both films with the film tape, but that's not reliable for me, neither is folding the sticky tape over the end of the first film so that the second pushes on that. As another poster said, practice in the light.

Small Vs. Large Tanks for processing

smo2

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Ray Heath

PhotoSmith

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council

fschifano

Konical

Ian Grant

smo2

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

DKT

Konical

erl

PhotoSmith

sbandone

Roger Hicks

Dave Miller

Chazzy

erl

Dave Miller

Small Vs. Large Tanks for processing

Moderator

Membership Council

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency