??? Small 355-360mm Lens for 5x7 / 8x10 In #1 Shutter ???

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 9, 2015

I know there are many wonderful lenses in the 355-360mm range that are excellent for 4x5 / 5x7 / 8x10. However, nearly all of them I've seen are in Copal 3 or Copal 3s shutters. I want something smaller and not terribly pricey. I know some 360mm Apo Ronar lenses were mounted in Compur #2 shutters but that's still larger than I want and shutter repair parts may be scarce. I do realize maximum aperture will be limited to approximately f11 and that's okay. I'm more concerned about the overall size. Since size is a major concern, I'm guessing a slow Tessar or Dialyte design would top the list. I don't want to pay for expensive custom machine work. Lastly, I want a very sharp fairly modern coated lens, not any foo-foo portrait or swirly lenses.

Any suggestions?

ic-racer · Oct 9, 2015

360mm f10 Fujinon A is the only one I know unless you want to go to a telephoto.

In terms of mounting barrel lenses, SK Grimes has a chart that shows a a few Copal 1 possibilities for lenses 300mm and greater.
http://www.skgrimes.com/lens-mounting/table-of-lenses-fitted-to-shutters

Alan Gales · Oct 9, 2015

The Fujinon A is the only one that came to my mind too but I'm far from being an expert. The Fujinon A is rare and expensive (over priced?). A quick Google check found Kerry Thalmann's answer.

Dead Link Removed

Sorry it's not better news.

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 9, 2015

Ahh... of course!! Why didn't I think of the Fuji-A? Thanks, folks!! Maybe I can find a decent one at an affordable price.

DREW WILEY · Oct 9, 2015

Dream on. I ain't sellin' mine!

Alan9940 · Oct 9, 2015

Good luck finding the Fuji 360mm A. I searched for one for quite awhile and when it finally showed up on eBay I simply couldn't afford it. I settled for the CM-W version which, though still fairly large, is quite a bit smaller than my 360mm Symmar-S.

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 9, 2015

Yeah... someone just emailed a link to a 360-A that sold recently. It was WAY WAY WAY more than I can afford.

DREW WILEY · Oct 9, 2015

If you already have a no.3 Copal shutter, or can work with a barrel lens, lenscap-style, the 360 Apo Nikkor is lightweight, affordable, has
a big image circle, and is remarkably sharp.

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 9, 2015

Thanks, Drew. I know Apo Nikkors are fantastic lenses. I want something small in a #1 shutter.

Alan Gales · Oct 9, 2015

Just pick up a 14" Commercial Ektar in an Ilex#5 and don't worry about it!

DREW WILEY · Oct 9, 2015

Yeah, pick it up with a forklift !

Alan Gales · Oct 9, 2015

DREW WILEY said:
Yeah, pick it up with a forklift !

It sounds like someone doesn't eat their spinach! :confused:

DREW WILEY · Oct 9, 2015

Come take a steep hike with me in the mtns sometime we'll and see who can handle large format load. But no spinach. That's cheating. It
doesn't digest well at high altitude, and turbocharging is against the rules!

Alan Gales · Oct 9, 2015

You would beat me hands down with my fused together back. I'm just teasing Old N Feeble because he has some issues too.

I do own a 14" Commercial Ektar but I pull my gear behind me in a wheeled tool bag made by Klein.

DREW WILEY · Oct 9, 2015

Don't get me started. I'm a bit of an addict in that 14" range. The Fuji A is the cat's meow in terms of modern hard-sharp performance macro
to infinity, and one of my most used lenses on both 8x10 and 4x5. The no.1 shutter really helps at that extension of the 4x5 due to the light
weight and minimal shutter vibration. But that doesn't mean I don't covet an Ektar for its particular image look. But I lucked out and remembered I once horse-traded something for a little 14" Zeiss process tessar, which I eventually found in the bottom of a drawer. It turned out to have gorgeous out-of-focus rendering, while still being critically hard-sharp for things in focus. Now I just need to find a spare
Copal 3s for it, or just bag one of the Fuji L's in equivalent focal length, and compare. Probably get the whole lens for just the going price
of a spare shutter. Then I've got a 14" Kern dagor, yet a slightly different look, but itself fairly compact. I already sold my spare 360 Fuji.

cowanw · Oct 9, 2015

Would a Raptor 1a convertible be of use?

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 9, 2015

cowanw said:
Would a Raptor 1a convertible be of use?

Thank you but I'm looking for something a little more modern.

Alan9940 · Oct 9, 2015

Ah, the old 14" Ektar...had one about 30 years ago and shot a lot of portraits with it; had at least one bubble in the glass, too. Sure do remember that certain look one got from this lens, but I eventually sold it to move on to more modern glass. Not sure why I did that! Great lens!

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 9, 2015

Yes, the 14" Ektar is a fabulous lens... just too big for what I'm looking for.

Sal Santamaura · Oct 9, 2015

I just completed a comparison of the 350mm f/11 Schneider Apo Tele Xenar Compact, 355mm f/8 Kern Dagor and 360mm f/10 Fujinon A. This was on my 4x5 Phillips with some rise, all exposed at f/22, absolutely no wind, using Delta 100 in XTOL 1+3, since ultimate sharpness was my interest for shooting real world scenes (not flat subjects up close) on that format.

Evaluating the negatives, which included a USAF resolution chart at 50 foot distance along with general landscape content, the order was

Fujinon A sharpest

Apo Tele Xenar Compact next

Kern Dagor least sharp

By no means was the Dagor unsharp; it was just the least sharp of these three samples. I bought the Fujinon from Kerry 14 years ago, the Kern Dagor from an eBay seller about seven years ago and the Apo Tele Xenar Compact brand new a few months ago. The Fujinon was not only sharpest among this group, it has the most coverage. However, if one cannot find a clean sample, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Apo Tele Xenar Compact. My source was Linhof Studio outside London:

http://www.linhofstudio.com/products/Analogue-Lens-Schneider

I had no issues dealing with them or shipping/customs when ordering the lens.

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 9, 2015

Excellent information, Sal. I wish I could afford a Fuji-A.

DREW WILEY · Oct 9, 2015

I'm convinced the main problem with sharpness with the last of the 14" Dagors (the MC Kern) is the Compur 3 shutter itself, which has a palpable buzz. But this lens has the highest contrast and best color hue transmission of any lens I have ever seen, in any format. After all, it has only four air/glass interfaces, all superbly multicoated. But it was generally just too contrasty for me, and I hated that shutter, so replaced it with the previous single-coated Kern. From f/11 down they're quite sharp, though not quite in the league of lenses like the Fuji A, especially with strong tilts or close-up. That late 360 Schneider semi-tele seems to have been produced in extremely limited numbers, so the odds of connecting with one are pretty low. The best bargain in a compact high-performance 14" nowadays is the 355 G-Claron,
similar in design to the Fuji A except single-coated, and distinctly heavier due to its no.3 shutter. I heard of people putting 14" Artars in
no. 2 shutter, a rare extinct bird itself.

Sal Santamaura · Oct 9, 2015

Sal Santamaura said:
...I bought...the Apo Tele Xenar Compact brand new a few months ago....My source was Linhof Studio outside London:

http://www.linhofstudio.com/products/Analogue-Lens-Schneider

I had no issues dealing with them or shipping/customs when ordering the lens.

DREW WILEY said:
...That late 360 Schneider semi-tele seems to have been produced in extremely limited numbers, so the odds of connecting with one are pretty low...

The probability of connecting with a brand new one is unity. They're still available, as I noted above.

Sal Santamaura · Oct 9, 2015

DREW WILEY said:
I'm convinced the main problem with sharpness with the last of the 14" Dagors (the MC Kern) is the Compur 3 shutter itself, which has a palpable buzz...

My test was conducted at 1/60 second. There was no "buzz" evident in the Kern Dagor's Compur 3 shutter at that speed, either audible or palpable. And the Phillips' front standard is as rigid as they come.

In any case, the lower sharpness exhibited by my Kern Dagor under a 30X loupe, as used to examine negatives from all three lenses, shows no characteristics of motion blur. It's clearly just a matter of lens performance.

DREW WILEY · Oct 12, 2015

I used them on a Phillips, Sal. Two different ones. And they do buzz like heck. Put your fingernail against the front aluminum riser of the front standard. Maybe this has marginal effect on something fairly stable like an 8x10 folder on a big Ries tripod, but it could distinctly compromise things at the end of a 4x5 monorail - I'm not saying blur, but a deal-breaker in comparison to other choices, including the gentler no.3 Copal 3s used for the previous Kern run. No guessing here. I spent a lot of time and money on that one. So No no no no. It's not just the optics. As as far as any new Schneider 360 semi-teles out there, are you just surfing ads stuck in the system to the end of time; or does someone ACTUALLY have any left in stock, because the brief mfg run has been officially OVER for some time now. Glad you found one; but there can't possibly be too many out there somewhere. In any event, they're not cheap by any means. But I do applaud that
someone did offer a late alternative in no.1 shutter to the Fuji A. ... speaking of which, you could see the difference in a heartbeat between
a 30x40 Ciba print from this lens vs a late Dagor, probably even in an 11x14 print.

??? Small 355-360mm Lens for 5x7 / 8x10 In #1 Shutter ???

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency