Slow shutter speeds

Joephoto99 · Jun 4, 2016

Hello All. I'm asking those who know for advice when shooting medium format cameras with slow shutter speeds of 1/500th or 1/1000th in bright sunlight. What methods are you using for these conditions shooting wide open f/2.8? Normally with Portra 400 or Fuji. How do you deal with over exposure due to slow shutter speeds. I understand that some of these films look better slightly over exposed but I'm concerned about too much. I would add that I would rather not use ND filters. Thank you.

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2016

Welcome to APUG

I shoot medium format with ISO 400 most of the time. I am usually shooting at the higher speeds. You are right that over exposing those films that much is beyond the range that the films can handle. If you want to shoot with the lens wide open, you will need to get some neutral density filters such as ND2, ND4 or ND8 which will expand the shutter speed by two times, four times or eight times respectively. If the exposure is f/16 at 1/500 second, the settings would be f/11 for ND2, f/8 for ND4 and f/5.6 for ND8 at 1/500 second. Therefore consider using Portra 160 which would give you f/5.6-f/8 for ND2, f/4-f/5.6 for ND4 and f/2.8-f/4 for ND8 at 1/500 second.

Joephoto99 · Jun 5, 2016

Thank you. I'm currently trying to decide between a Hasselblad H1 with a top shutter speed of 1/1000th or a Mamiya 645 AFDii which hits 1/4000th. Not sure which is a better way to go. I like that Hasselblad is still in business and I've heard great things about the focusing.

AgX · Jun 5, 2016

Joephoto99 said:
I'm asking those who know for advice when shooting medium format cameras with slow shutter speeds of 1/500th or 1/1000th in bright sunlight.

Welcvome!
Here at Apug we would not consider 1/1000 or 1/500 a slow shutter speed at all.

In case those in your actual case would be too slow, one has to chose between stepping down or using a neutral density filter. Stepping down to minimum aperture will slightly hamper image quality.

Doremus Scudder · Jun 5, 2016

[QUOTE="Joephoto99, post: 1801491, member: 79712" ... I would add that I would rather not use ND filters. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

So, you want to use fast film in bright light at f/2.8 and your shutter speed isn't fast enough to not overexpose the film... then you don't want to use ND filters...

Well, you've just run yourself out of options. One of those parameters (at least) has to change. It's up to you to decide which one. Impossible is impossible.

Doremus

Chan Tran · Jun 5, 2016

What a wasteful way to use a camera!

gone · Jun 5, 2016

I understand your desire to shoot wide open w/ fast film in bright sun. When I was shooting mostly 35mm film my favorite camera was a Nikon N8008s that went to 1/8000. It had a Leica R 90 lens on it, and what's the point of having a lens w/ beautiful bokeh when you can't open the lens up? It was nice to be able to shoot portraits in bright conditions and blur out distracting backgrounds too. Really miss that combination.

Most MF shooters are happy to have a camera that has a 1/500 top speed though! That's a much bigger piece of film, and shutter mechanisms have difficulty w/ the physics of fast speeds and large objects. What sorta saves you is that a MF lens that is stopped down one f stop beyond wide open still has very shallow DOF compared to a 35mm lens. However, not all MF lenses have buttery smooth bokeh. I finally resolved things to my satisfaction by realizing that a 35mm camera was best suited for candids, portraits and flower shots, and a MF camera had other uses.

If you gotta have this capability w/ MF, use slower speed films and/or use ND filters. MF cameras are big and heavy and not really suited for walk about wide open shooting to be honest, which is why I used 35mm for that.

Jim Noel · Jun 5, 2016

Joephoto99 said:
Hello All. I'm asking those who know for advice when shooting medium format cameras with slow shutter speeds of 1/500th or 1/1000th in bright sunlight. What methods are you using for these conditions shooting wide open f/2.8? Normally with Portra 400 or Fuji. How do you deal with over exposure due to slow shutter speeds. I understand that some of these films look better slightly over exposed but I'm concerned about too much. I would add that I would rather not use ND filters. Thank you.

What do you consider fast shutter speeds? 1/500 and 1/1000 are the fastest found on most shutters.

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
Welcome to APUG

I shoot medium format with ISO 400 most of the time. I am usually shooting at the higher speeds. You are right that over exposing those films that much is beyond the range that the films can handle. If you want to shoot with the lens wide open, you will need to get some neutral density filters such as ND2, ND4 or ND8 which will expand the shutter speed by two times, four times or eight times respectively. If the exposure is f/16 at 1/500 second, the settings would be f/11 for ND2, f/8 for ND4 and f/5.6 for ND8 at 1/500 second. Therefore consider using Portra 160 which would give you f/5.6-f/8 for ND2, f/4-f/5.6 for ND4 and f/2.8-f/4 for ND8 at 1/500 second.

Joephoto99 said:
Thank you. I'm currently trying to decide between a Hasselblad H1 with a top shutter speed of 1/1000th or a Mamiya 645 AFDii which hits 1/4000th. Not sure which is a better way to go. I like that Hasselblad is still in business and I've heard great things about the focusing.

I use a Hasselblad 503 CX with the 50mm, 80mm, 100mm, 150mm, 250mm, and 500mm lens, 2XE and a Hasselblad 903SWC and 1/500 second is short enough. The Hasselblad lenses are so sharp that even wide open the focus is sharp so I do not know what you would expect to get with a wide open lens other than a reduced depth of field.

BrianShaw · Jun 5, 2016

This same concern seems to come up from time to time, and it is a classic example of wanting to use the wrong film at the wrong time. Slower film or ND filters are the only serious options. It's a simple problem to solve really.

Welcome to the forum, Joe.

Kirks518 · Jun 5, 2016

I also don't see the point/reasoning in using such a fast film in bright daylight. I'd drop to at least Portra 160, or even Velvia or Ektar 100, or if you have some, Velvia 50. If it's portraiture you're doing, stick with the Portra 160.

Based on what you're saying/trying to do, you need the Mamiya. The Hassy won't give you the shutter speeds to make you happy, unless you modify something (ND, film, etc).

MattKing · Jun 5, 2016

If the OP is also looking for pronounced grain and reduced resolution, then over-exposing something like T-Max 400 might work.

Please don't send me the negatives to print!

paul ron · Jun 5, 2016

why would i use a sledge hammer to drive a brad nail? there is a time n place for everything.

use slower film.

Chan Tran · Jun 5, 2016

I think the OP was into ultra thin DOF so that a 35mm can't do and also the OP wants lots of grain which with ISO100 and medium format that's too little grain.

I have to think that the OP did not start out taking pictures with an analog camera.

rpavich · Jun 6, 2016

Joephoto99 said:
Hello All. I'm asking those who know for advice when shooting medium format cameras with slow shutter speeds of 1/500th or 1/1000th in bright sunlight. What methods are you using for these conditions shooting wide open f/2.8? Normally with Portra 400 or Fuji. How do you deal with over exposure due to slow shutter speeds. I understand that some of these films look better slightly over exposed but I'm concerned about too much. I would add that I would rather not use ND filters. Thank you.

I generally don't shoot wide open with MF. The DOF is razor thin and not that useable. I'd have no problem stopping down a few stops; the background will still be blurred at f/4 or f/5.6.
As far as overexposure, you can overexpose a LOT 5 stops...6 stops....even more; they just get really dense, that's all.

PS: Nothing wrong with getting an ND filter, they are useful for more than just using wide apertures.

Also, you can change film backs (keep 400 in one back and 160 or 100 in the other) to help your situation.

Basically that's it. Sometimes you have to adapt a bit.

Kawaiithulhu · Jun 6, 2016

I don't understand not wanting to use an ND filter... what is the reasoning behind deciding that your one, best tool to control too much light isn't acceptable to use?

I see it as wanting to change a light bulb but demanding that no ladders be used

paul ron · Jun 6, 2016

he can also pigie back 2 polarizer filters for a variable nd filter that goes almost to blackout.

AgX · Jun 6, 2016

polaroid filters = polarizer

Jim Jones · Jun 6, 2016

paul ron said:
he can also pigie back 2 polaroid filters for a variable nd filter that goes almost to blackout.

I've successfully used this for photographing solar eclipses. For more traditional photography, it sometimes introduces artifacts that are difficult to see because of the dim image on a ground glass. Test it before shooting anything critical. Variable density filters work on this principal, and should be calibrated for repeatable shots.

paul ron · Jun 7, 2016

AgX said:
polaroid filters = polarizer

yes... polarizers.

Joephoto99 · Jun 8, 2016

Thank you all for the replies. Yes I like to shoot wide open when I can. One member stated I didn't start out shooting analog. I actually started out on a Canon AE-1. Medium Format is new to me. I use a Sony A7RII and A6300 for daily jobs. I guess its to the ND filters then. Reason I didn't really want to use them is they can (in the digital world at least) create a color cast. I bought some Portra 160 so I will give it a try. Sorry for the Newb questions. Also I went with the Hasselblad so 1/800th here I come...lol.

Slow shutter speeds

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