Slide film scanning

Ektagraphic · Feb 21, 2009

Hello-
I was reading about loss of color over time in slides that are projected (especially Kodachrome). I have been having lots of prints made from my Kodachromes by my lab. They scan them and then print them. I was wondering what the intensity light it in an average scanner that is dedicated to scanning film. Is it as bright as a slide projector? Thanks

L Gebhardt · Feb 21, 2009

It is much less than a slide projector. If you are worried about fading, I wouldn't worry too much. I don't have lux values for you, but just looking at the size of the bulbs you can see it is much less light passing through. I have heard Kodachome can take several hours of projection before noticeable fading occurs.

Kirk Keyes · Feb 21, 2009

No way near as bright as a projector - based on my personal observation of home scanners, similar to the amount of light from your flatbed scanner.

Anyway, we better get out of here before they shut this thread down. Someone said the word "scanner"...

Ektagraphic · Feb 21, 2009

Thanks. Kodachrome begins to fade after 1 hour of projection, where Ektachrome is 3++ hours. I would love to go the Ilfochrome route...but that is just a bit expensive! I don't have a darkroom to do it my self (I really wish I did!) so the best price I could find was $50 for an 8X10!

bob100684 · Feb 21, 2009

on the machines i've worked on, the intensity of the light varies quite a bit. On the frontier and noritsu I've worked on that are LED based, you can stare at the light when it's on at full power. On the frontier 390 I worked with, it uses a tungsten bulb....600 watts. It was painful to have in your field of view much less look at. Maybe if you're thinking of making lots of prints of certain slides, it would be a decent idea to scan the film either at the lab, or at home, then make prints from the digital files?

L Gebhardt · Feb 22, 2009

Just out of curiosity does anyone know how long it takes to fade color print film? Is a frequently printed negative in danger? My enlarger has 3 x 360 Watt bulbs and is quite bright. If I spend a couple of minutes focusing and exposing it could add up to an hour or more if I find that one print everyone wants a copy of (so only theoretical at this point).

Ektagraphic · Feb 22, 2009

I have heard stories of negs fading when 1000 christmas cards were printed on an optical minilab in the '90s. They guy said by the end the pictures coming out were much diffrent than at the beginning. I think you are all set. You can find tons of info from these guys Dead Link Removed. They published a book on longevety, fading, archival properties and many other aspect of negative and slide film. I just ordered it. It is out of print, though.

bob100684 · Feb 22, 2009

Ektagraphic said:
I have heard stories of negs fading when 1000 christmas cards were printed on an optical minilab in the '90s. They guy said by the end the pictures coming out were much diffrent than at the beginning. I think you are all set. You can find tons of info from these guys Dead Link Removed. They published a book on longevety, fading, archival properties and many other aspect of negative and slide film. I just ordered it. It is out of print, though.

wasn't the neg fading, it was the light source shifting with use.

nickandre · Feb 22, 2009

It takes 1 hour of projection to fade a Kodachrome slide 20% and 3 hours to fade a modern ektachrome slide.

accozzaglia · Feb 22, 2009

Doesn't Kodachrome colour retention sort of "bounce back" once out of that light?

Also, the fading, if I understand correctly, is attributable more to chemical breakdown from the heat of a tungsten lamp (of which upwards to 90 percent is emittance of heat, not light) than it is for the light itself, yes? Under this rubric, a white LED light source would be slower to trigger fading, one might think.

Slixtiesix · Feb 22, 2009

I wouldn´t bother about it. Your slides won´t get any harm from scanning. Compared to what they have to stand in a projector scanning might be like a visit in a spa for them
Greetz, Benjamin

StorminMatt · Feb 22, 2009

tiberiustibz said:
It takes 1 hour of projection to fade a Kodachrome slide 20% and 3 hours to fade a modern ektachrome slide.

Has anyone actually tried this to confirm it? Or is this just more of that same-old 'E6 is better' pitch that has been going on for the last 28 years?

Anon Ymous · Feb 22, 2009

Additionaly, is it permanent fading or temporary?

kodachrome64 · Feb 24, 2009

StorminMatt said:
Has anyone actually tried this to confirm it? Or is this just more of that same-old 'E6 is better' pitch that has been going on for the last 28 years?

I did a very unscientific study of this. I had to K64 slides of the same scene, same exposure. I put one in the projector for about 3 sessions of 2 hours each. By the time I was done, I still could not see any fading with my eye, either on the projection screen or with a loupe on the lightbox. Again, I didn't measure anything, but this at least caused me not to worry too too much about normal methods of projection. I certainly wouldn't worry about sc@nning.

David Brown · Feb 25, 2009

tiberiustibz said:
It takes 1 hour of projection to fade a Kodachrome slide 20% and 3 hours to fade a modern ektachrome slide.

Do you have demonstrated data, or did you just read this somewhere? I'm not saying it is or is not accurate (I don't know) but it is a pretty broad statement.

PHOTOTONE · Feb 25, 2009

Anon Ymous said:
Additionaly, is it permanent fading or temporary?

There is no such thing as "temporary" fading of a color slide. Once dyes fade, they don't come back.

Prest_400 · Feb 25, 2009

Ektagraphic said:
Thanks. Kodachrome begins to fade after 1 hour of projection, where Ektachrome is 3++ hours. I would love to go the Ilfochrome route...but that is just a bit expensive! I don't have a darkroom to do it my self (I really wish I did!) so the best price I could find was $50 for an 8X10!

Scary, now I'll just take a fast projection of family agfachromes. Just a few seconds.
Yep Ilfochrome is expensive but I just found in one of the chapters of the Wilheim Book:
"Longer-lasting still are Ilford Ilfochrome (called
Cibachrome, 1963–1991) polyester-base print materials and
color microfilms, the only easily processed color materials
on the market that are essentially permanent in dark storage
(they should last 500 or more years without significant
fading or staining when kept in the dark under normal
room temperature conditions)."
Even if it's expensive, I'll get some for the darkroom when I'm able to get one, of course... I want things that last.

Anon Ymous · Feb 25, 2009

PHOTOTONE said:
There is no such thing as "temporary" fading of a color slide. Once dyes fade, they don't come back.

Have a look (there was a url link here which no longer exists). I can't tell anything from personal experience, but the source is very reliable.

nickandre · Feb 25, 2009

PE said there was temporary fading for both types of slides.

No, the time fading statistic is based on data I read and committed to memory a year ago or so. I can't tell you where I read it.There have been many such studies done if you want to google it. I can't tell you the intensity of the projector bulb or anything so consider it useless. Also remember that this talks about a 20% fade, far from fading to clear plastic.
Kodachrome has amazing dark stability, but the light stability is inferior to E6 today (remember that the Kodachrome we use today and the process came out of the late 70s/early 80s.)

Slide film scanning

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