Slide film at night time

rayonline_nz · Jul 7, 2019

I went out today and shot a few frames. Now I am a bit worried some frames might just lack details in the shadows. Below is someone else's photograph on flickr I found. I have shot Velvia on a tripod in Tokyo and I have gotten similar results. You get a nice cobalt blue twilight sky but the buildings on the bottom are just so dark.

Link to Flickr ..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thepr...p3IX6iqfhpUspz8fs6Ci2fBUcKLm5emFhys5jZwxlZfPM

This is a shot I did myself with Fuji Velvia 100 (RVP).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zft41w9kn9j9fh/Velvia 100 night.jpg?dl=0

Cheers.

koraks · Jul 7, 2019

The 'problem' is that the buildings themselves are several EV's below the bright artificial lights and even the sky. That's a bit much for slide film to span. But yours came out nicely, didn't it?
If you want detail all across the scale of such a scene, try negative film.

rayonline_nz · Jul 7, 2019

koraks said:
The 'problem' is that the buildings themselves are several EV's below the bright artificial lights and even the sky. That's a bit much for slide film to span. But yours came out nicely, didn't it?
If you want detail all across the scale of such a scene, try negative film.

Thanks for that. My one, I preferred more detail on the bottom of the frame. The slide itself looked nicer when it is backlighted by a very bright source, hahah.

In the heyday of film, how would a pro captured this on film or would they had used negative film? A lot of places requested slide film right ... One of the great things of slides is that they look great in full colors by the bare film.

GLS · Jul 7, 2019

For this application Provia 100F is a much better choice than Velvia, for a couple of reasons:

- It has a wider exposure latitude
- It has far superior reciprocity characteristics. With Velvia 50 reciprocity failure kicks in after only 4 seconds, but Provia 100F requires no correction for up to 2 minutes, and only + 1/3 of a stop for up to 4 minutes!

Beyond that, if you want any shadow detail at all you will have to accept that streetlights/signs etc will get blown to some degree. It's either that or shoot negative film.

Check out this guy's stream if you want to see lots of Provia 100F city shots at night:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/akira_1972/

etn · Jul 7, 2019

GLS said:
For this application Provia 100F is a much better choice than Velvia, for a couple of reasons:

- It has a wider exposure latitude
- It has far superior reciprocity characteristics. With Velvia 50 reciprocity failure kicks in after only 4 seconds, but Provia 100F requires no correction for up to 2 minutes, and only + 1/3 of a stop for up to 4 minutes!

Beyond that, if you want any shadow detail at all you will have to accept that streetlights/signs etc will get blown to some degree. It's either that or shoot negative film.

this ^^ sums it all up.
Beware of the reciprocity characteristics. The old Velvia (1990-2008), marked RVP, had very poor reciprocity behavior and is better avoided for night pictures, in case you are still shooting this one. (I stockpiled it in 2008 when Fuji issued a discontinuation notice and 10 years later still have a dozen rolls in my freezer, lol). The newer/current version, introduced in 2009 and marked RVP50, is much better in that regard. Both are high contrast films which will clip shadows to black. I can't comment on the Velvia 100 and 100F as I much prefer the 50, but I guess they'd be pretty similar.

I think your pictures are great, though. Is the 2nd one the Tokyo Skytree?

GLS · Jul 7, 2019

Velvia 100 has better reciprocity compared with RVP50, but still isn't as good as Provia 100F in either exposure compensation or colour correction required.

etn · Jul 7, 2019

GLS said:
It's either that or shoot negative film.

or (pardon me for mentioning it) - the "forbidden word with D"
Modern digital cameras are very good at pulling out shadows. I agree, it's not as fun as film and there's a reason why we film addicts are all here on this forum. Not wanting to start a film vs. digital argument (film wins!), but night photography and astrophotography is where digital really brings something to the table compared to film in my opinion.

Apologies for the digression, let's go back to topic.

mooseontheloose · Jul 7, 2019

Just curious if you bracketed your exposures. Before I moved to black and white, I shot mostly slides (esp Provia) for years, and dusk was my favourite time to do so. But I would often bracket (erring to the side of overexposure) to make sure I got what I wanted. I experimented a lot in those days - with gelled flashes, double exposures, etc. Don't know what happened to all that. ;-) I think the key is reading your light - are you after the (dusky blue) sky, or the buildings/objects that are lit up? If the latter, how lit are they? Often you have to make a choice about what you want in the composition.

Here's a shot at dusk in Ogimachi, Gifu taken over 15 years ago on some flavour of Provia. Of course the light is a lot more even than some of the city shots you posted, but it's just what I have at hand at the moment.

GLS · Jul 7, 2019

etn said:
or (pardon me for mentioning it) - the "forbidden word with D"
Modern digital cameras are very good at pulling out shadows.

Of course. Unlike many on these forums I'm not possessed of a need to drip scorn on digital photography at every opportunity. It's just another tool in the toolbox, and like it or not it happens to excel in many areas. The appropriate and skilled use of the right tool is what ultimately matters.

However, as you said let's not get off topic.

mooseontheloose said:
Here's a shot at dusk in Ogimachi, Gifu taken over 15 years ago on some flavour of Provia. Of course the light is a lot more even than some of the city shots you posted, but it's just what I have at hand at the moment.

Really nice shot! I'm betting the tendency of Provia shadows towards blue helped to set the mood here.

Ian C · Jul 7, 2019

One thing you can do is to shoot earlier in the evening, or later, approaching dawn. That will give you the night lights, but also more color and detail in the buildings and so forth. Much of successful photography involves not only in deciding what to shoot—but when. Bracketing only helps so much, as it affects everything simultaneously. When the difference between shadows and highlights is too great, you need to reconsider WHEN you shoot in order to control the results in a pleasing manner.

Full darkness is generally not the best time to shoot nighttime cityscapes and industrial scenes. Consider shooting a number of photos over a span of time when the ambient light is changing. This can start when the ambient light is one or two stops lighter than full darkness. This will give you photos with a range of highlight-to-shadow ratios. You can then see what works best. Take notes and use the test photos so that you can get better night photos consistently.

rayonline_nz · Jul 7, 2019

etn said:
I think your pictures are great, though. Is the 2nd one the Tokyo Skytree?

Yes, it's Tokyo Skytree. I did walk to it but didn't go up preferred to find a good shooting location away from it.

I've just started using Provia 100F recently with this pro pack. Will see how it is. It might have a bit more dynamic range but prob not as much as I want. ...

mooseontheloose said:
Just curious if you bracketed your exposures.

View attachment 226537

I did bracket when I was in Japan with the 2nd photograph. I usually don't bracket now with medium format. I have in the past taken notes and wrote down my metering technique, whee I pointed my spot meter and what correction if any. For the 2nd photo, I wanted the nice colors off the tower with a nice sky and more detail on the buildings underneath. Yeah, basically I wanted more detail on the bottom buildings while retaining that vivid and tall tower building.

etn said:
or (pardon me for mentioning it) - the "forbidden word with D"

I have a full frame dSLR and it is so much easier. A single shot in RAW and simply just with Lightroom. Or 2 different exposure shots with a sky / foreground separation shot and using Photoshop with the grad tool and blend the two together and play with the curves. You have dynamic range and saturation and it is fine grain, zoom in and you still have detail.

rayonline_nz · Jul 7, 2019

Ian C said:
One thing you can do is to shoot earlier in the evening, or later, approaching dawn.

That is an option. I was standing there waiting for the sky to get darker to get that deep blue color though ... at the time.

etn · Jul 7, 2019

GLS said:
Of course. Unlike many on these forums I'm not possessed of a need to drip scorn on digital photography at every opportunity

Please accept my apologies. I didn't intend to offend you by any means - just wanted to mention another tool to the OP which he might find useful.

Etienne

GLS · Jul 7, 2019

etn said:
Please accept my apologies. I didn't intend to offend you by any means - just wanted to mention another tool to the OP which he might find useful.

Etienne

No apology required, and no offence was taken

Sorry if my comment seemed overly barbed; it certainly wasn't aimed at you.

thuggins · Jul 7, 2019

As mentioned above, the main problem is the Velvia 100. This is very contrasty and shadows just go to black. Provia or the new Ektachrome would be much better. I have shot many night scenes with my OM's on slide film.

MattKing · Jul 7, 2019

The biggest reason to use slide film at night is that you can then project the results.
A projected slide is much more likely to present you with satisfying shadows, because projection optimizes how the slide appears.
That being said, exposing the film with just a bit more ambient light - at least slightly into dusk or dawn - usually gives a result that better balances the lights and the environment you find them in.

Slide film at night time

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