SL66 and 220 Film

ineffablething · Jun 13, 2006

I've been shooting with my new SL66 and loving it. Frame spacing on 120 film has been fine, but today I ran 6 rolls of 220 film through it and the spacing gets progressively wider. I still get 24 shots per roll and it's only a minor annoyance when I try and sleeve the negs but I wonder if the back is ok. There is no pressure plate on the camera, only a little switch that changes the film counter.

elekm · Jun 13, 2006

That seems to be correct. The spacing on my roll of 220 definitely is wider than 120. Probably has to do with lack of paper backing as film is wound on to the takeup spool.

The pressure plate is part of the film insert in the film back.

ineffablething · Jun 13, 2006

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Does the spacing on your 220 rolls get progessively wider? On mine, the spacing is pretty normal at the front of the roll, but then gets wider.

William

elekm said:
That seems to be correct. The spacing on my roll of 220 definitely is wider than 120. Probably has to do with lack of paper backing as film is wound on to the takeup spool.

The pressure plate is part of the film insert in the film back.

Mike Kovacs · Jun 14, 2006

I haven't shot 220 in mine yet, however it sounds like the type of problem you can sometimes encounter when there isn't enough tension on the film.

Have you tried another roll? When I first wind the paper leader on the take-up side, I always hold my thumb against the full roll when first loading the leader to provide some tension.

Woolliscroft · Jun 14, 2006

I think this is how the Pentax 67II manages to get 21 frames on 220 and still has a decent space between negs.

David.

aoresteen · Jun 15, 2006

FWIW only the fisrt version of the Pentax 6x7 got 21 pictures on 220. Later models were reduced to 20 images on 220 as I recall.

Helen B · Jun 15, 2006

Oddly enough, later versions of the SL 66 mag (when they became either 120 or 220 only) get 25 frames on 220.

Best,
Helen

ineffablething · Jun 15, 2006

Helen,

Did you experience the odd spacing when using 220 with the original 120/220 SL66 backs?

William

William

Helen B said:
Oddly enough, later versions of the SL 66 mag (when they became either 120 or 220 only) get 25 frames on 220.

Best,
Helen

elekm · Jun 15, 2006

The negs on my 220 are pretty evenly spaced from start to finish, although the gap widens slightly. But not a whole lot.

I would tend to agree with Mike that you not allow the feed spool to loosen when loading. But it's probably a combination of perhaps the film being looser than it should be and no paper backing.

As long as they don't overlap, I wouldn't be too concerned unless the gaps become huge -- like half a frame.

Papa Tango · Jun 15, 2006

Simple enough

The roll gets larger in diameter as the film is advanced. The amount that the winding mechanism moves the roller core does not change as the roller fills with film. Larger diameter means increasing takeup as the film is advanced. Result: wider spaces between frames. In most backs and cameras, there is no remedy for it, it is an artifact of design.

Mike Kovacs · Jun 16, 2006

Pragmatist said:
The roll gets larger in diameter as the film is advanced. The amount that the winding mechanism moves the roller core does not change as the roller fills with film.

The mechanism does change the amount of film spooled on to compensate for the growing roll diameter. You would never get 12/24 120/220 shots if it didn't.

Woolliscroft · Jun 16, 2006

aoresteen said:
FWIW only the fisrt version of the Pentax 6x7 got 21 pictures on 220. Later models were reduced to 20 images on 220 as I recall.

No, I have an almost new 67II and it gets 21 on 220.

David.

ineffablething · Jun 16, 2006

Sorry, to be so dense, but I feel like my question hasn't been answered. Is it normal for the spacing on the original 120/220 back to get wider towards the end of the roll? I find no mention of this in the original owner's manual. I am wondering if it is ok, or if I should get the back repaired before it gets worse.

William

Woolliscroft said:
No, I have an almost new 67II and it gets 21 on 220.

David.

Mike Kovacs · Jun 16, 2006

Here's the dense friendly response

1. Are you getting 24 shots?

2. Is shot #1 starting at the beginning of the film?

3. Are you winding the leader on tightly? If the leader is too loose, the takeup spool will be thicker than the camera's frame spacing mechanism "thinks", and yes you will get wider spacing towards the end.

ineffablething · Jun 16, 2006

Hi Mike,

1.Yes

2.Yes

3.Yes

The reason I am worried about it that I'm about to go on a weeklong trip and have about 100 rolls of 220 and if the spacing was indicative of a potential problem with the back, I'd leave the Rollei home. I guess I will give it a shot and try and wind that roll even tighter.

W.

Mike Kovacs said:
Here's the dense friendly response

1. Are you getting 24 shots?

2. Is shot #1 starting at the beginning of the film?

3. Are you winding the leader on tightly? If the leader is too loose, the takeup spool will be thicker than the camera's frame spacing mechanism "thinks", and yes you will get wider spacing towards the end.

Mike Kovacs · Jun 16, 2006

If you're getting 24 shots, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

If you need piece of mind, get it serviced - no response on the internet is going to give you piece of mind for an important shoot. I had Juergen Kuschnik (SL66 expert, ex-Rollei employee in California) overhaul my SL66 and he did excellent work with very fast turn-around. I normally fix my own cameras but the SL66 is in another league mechanically and I didn't have the spare parts it required.

I do intend to overhaul my own SL66 magazine backs when they act up. (I have three, all working OK) Someone like Juergen is going to set you back at least $100-150 + shipping though.

naturephoto1 · Jun 16, 2006

If you decide to have your Rollei or an old Rollei camera serviced, Krikor Maralian is the official repair for old Rolleis in the US. I just visited Krikor last week, he will be checking my eBay purchase of Rollei 35S when it arrives and he has serviced my Rollei 3.5F for years.

Krikor's info is:

Krikor Maralian
Krimar Photo Shop
105B Broadway (Rt 4)
Elmwood Park, NJ 07407
(201) 796-0554

Rich

ineffablething · Jun 16, 2006

Thanks!

Helen B · Jun 17, 2006

Another recommendation for Juergen Kuschnik. He is one of the few people who is able to service the SL 66SE.

In answer to your question to me, I've only used 220 in a 220 back for the SL 66, never in a 120/220 back.

Best,
Helen

Earl Dunbar · Jun 18, 2006

I found the 120/220 backs to be the weak spot of the SL66. I did not know the the later backs were 120 or 220 only. I had issues with my backs getting jammed occasionaly, and spacing could be an issue even on 120. I suspect they needed servicing. Perhaps the later design corrected all the issues I experienced, but I sold all my SL66 gear about 20 years ago.

Papa Tango · Jun 18, 2006

Nope

Mike may be right about the single format backs, but the 120/220 are a little bit different. It seems that way with the Mamiya power backs as well. There is no accurate way to do this with a split film back for several reasons.

1. One has paper and the other does not. Differing end roll thicknesses.

2. Film bases can be of different thicknesses across different manufacturers.

A reversing pressure plate does not recalibrate any of this either.

ineffablething · Jun 18, 2006

It doesn't seem to be a problem with my Pentax 67,though. Just turn the switch and flip the plate and the spacing is fine with 120 and 220.

SL66 and 220 Film

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