Single Perf 35mm: Bulk Portra 160NC

iandvaag · Apr 12, 2016

I recently purchased some 100' bulk film rolls of 35mm from someone locally. They were a good price, but I never asked why. I found out now upon opening them, that they are only perforated along one edge. There is no indication on the box that it is only single perfed, so didn't even know to ask!

How do I shoot this stuff (what camera)? My canon EOS auto-winds a bit out of the cassette onto the take up spool, and then flashes the "not loaded correctly" indicator.

captain ZZM · Apr 13, 2016

Smena 8M and the all version can use it, many simple or toy camera has a single sprocket.

newcan1 · Apr 13, 2016

I have been able to modify a Nikkormat Ftn to work successfully with non-sprocketed film, by adding just the right amount of rubber tape to the sprocketed advance spindle to provide friction.

mnemosyne · Apr 13, 2016

APUGuser19 said:
A non-electronic camera. If I recall, some of the old Kodak Retinas only had sprockets at one end. A camera like that is what you really need.

I own a Retina II and a Retina Ia and the sprocket rollers are indeed only toothed on one end. I have no clue what kind of more recent/common 35mm camera this film would work in. In hindsight, the "SP" on the box probably indicates "single perforated", but I admit I would never expected it just looking at the text that's printed on the box!

BrianShaw · Apr 13, 2016

There's always the picture.

mnemosyne · Apr 13, 2016

BrianShaw said:
There's always the picture.

Are these pictures on the box? Looked to me like snippets from the actual film put on the box by the TO to illustrate ... Maybe I need a new display ... or maybe new eyes ...!!

BrianShaw · Apr 13, 2016

I had to look twice... but I think that to the right of "C-41" and "100 ft" is a picture on the box. Below that is certainly a snippet. Maybe I'm incorrect, of course. I know for certain that I could use a new display and new eyes!

frobozz · Apr 13, 2016

SP 669 on the box is the Kodak "Specification number" - that is how you tell what the film is like even though nowhere on the box does it tell you it's single perforated. Of course that also requires you to have a list of all the SP numbers and good luck with that! They exist, and the various options are generally included on the spec sheet for any given film, but when talking about older outdated film it gets really tricky.

SP 402 is the standard spec for 100' bulk load Kodak 35mm still film. I don't have the description handy, but it will specify that it's 35mm, wound emulsion in on a small plastic core, double-perforated with Kodak perfs, etc. SP669, if you could track it down, would obviously specify single-perfs.

Duncan

frobozz · Apr 13, 2016

Oh, looks like SP 669 is a movie film spec. It shows up here (where it says it's perf'd one edge, and shows which way it's wound, i.e. which edge the perfs are on):

http://motion.kodak.com/KodakGCG/up...cts_Price_Catalog_US_Prices_April_2015_V4.pdf

Is it on a metal spool with sides, or a core?

Duncan

Wallendo · Apr 13, 2016

iandvaag said:
...

How do I shoot this stuff (what camera)? My canon EOS auto-winds a bit out of the cassette onto the take up spool, and then flashes the "not loaded correctly" indicator...

I don't know the details of your camera, but have you tried loading the film "backwards"? Not inside out like redscale, but removing a few feet from the roll and then loading it on a cassette from back to front which would have the effect of placing the perforations on the opposite side of the film when loaded in the cassette

iandvaag · Apr 13, 2016

Wallendo said:
have you tried loading the film "backwards"

Loading the film emulsion side right, sprocket holes at the top does not allow for the "winding spool" to engage the sprocket holes and wind the film. Good idea though.

I'm thinking about purchasing a canon 10/10s/10qd. It has a Dead Link Removed, and sprocket teeth only on the bottom of the "winding spool". I'm guessing the reason it failed in my eos A2 is beacuse the IR frame counter failed to detect the upper sprocket holes (because there were none!) Do you guys think this would work?

BrianShaw said:
There's always the picture.

Both of those are small pieces of film I clipped off and placed on the box to demonstrate the simple perforations. The top one is upside down, and I can see how the black AH layer makes it look like it's printed on the box.

Moral of the story: if something is too good to be true, there's a good chance that it is!

railwayman3 · Apr 13, 2016

frobozz said:
SP 669 on the box is the Kodak "Specification number" - that is how you tell what the film is like even though nowhere on the box does it tell you it's single perforated. Of course that also requires you to have a list of all the SP numbers and good luck with that! They exist, and the various options are generally included on the spec sheet for any given film, but when talking about older outdated film it gets really tricky.

SP 402 is the standard spec for 100' bulk load Kodak 35mm still film. I don't have the description handy, but it will specify that it's 35mm, wound emulsion in on a small plastic core, double-perforated with Kodak perfs, etc. SP669, if you could track it down, would obviously specify single-perfs.

Duncan

IIRC, I thought that I'd seen that Kodak "SP" denoted "Special Purpose" film? I'm thinking that Portra is a still film, not usually coated on Estar....could this be for some kind of motor drive still camera, maybe for a scientific purpose ? (100 ft would not last long for cine use, maybe a minute or so at 24 fps.?)

iandvaag · Apr 13, 2016

Agreed, 100' is far too short for 35mm cine use. I believe this came from a portrait studio that uses long-roll cameras (like camerz). Even so, I thought all long-roll 35mm cameras used unperfed film, so I when I read "perforated" on the box, I assumed I would be fine. I've never heard of single perf 35mm sold in 100' rolls before.

r.reeder · Apr 13, 2016

The old Argus model 'A' from 1936 had the single sprocket on the top; it would work with one of those.

frobozz · Apr 13, 2016

railwayman3 said:
IIRC, I thought that I'd seen that Kodak "SP" denoted "Special Purpose" film? I'm thinking that Portra is a still film, not usually coated on Estar....could this be for some kind of motor drive still camera, maybe for a scientific purpose ? (100 ft would not last long for cine use, maybe a minute or so at 24 fps.?)

You're thinking of "SO" (which I believe is for Special Order) for various early incarnations of film, some of which later get proper model numbers. SP is definitely for the SPecification of a film. For a lot of still films, they end up replacing SP with the film code - for instance you'll see "TX 402" on bulk rolls of Tri-X instead of SP 402.

Estar base, a cinema film SP code, on a 2" plastic core? This is definitely film for movie use, though maybe for some intermediate purpose rather than in a camera, given the Estar base and Kodak sprockets. 100' 35mm movie film is sold all the time, though often on metal spools so you can just pop it straight in your Eyemo camera or whatever. I'd be curious to know if that black AH layer is RemJet...

Duncan

iandvaag · Apr 13, 2016

frobozz said:
I'd be curious to know if that black AH layer is RemJet...

No remjet. Left is a piece of the film soaking in sodium bicarbonate solution. Right is a piece of film before soaking. It says "Process C-41" on the box, which doesn't have a RemJet step.

Thanks for the info on the Eyemo. I didn't know that movie film was ever sold in such small reels. This particular film that I have is on a plastic core. I can't measure in the dark, but I'd estimate 2" as you suggested. I'm still not completely convinced that it's for movie use, I think it may be more likely to be used in a long-roll 35mm camera for taking hundreds of school portraits or the like without changing film. I think Estar would still make sense for this application. The person who sold me this was also selling 70mm 100' rolls acquired from lifetouch, a company responsible for school portraits in Canada. I wasn't aware of 35mm long-roll cameras, so I never thought to ask beyond "is this perforated?", to which the reply was "yes".

Athiril · Apr 14, 2016

Non-perforated film works in my EOS 10, when I tape the leader with a small bit of tape to the take up spool, so yes.

albada · Apr 14, 2016

The Canon Elan II uses an IR (infra-red) sensor to detect the sprocket-holes, and I *think* it has only one such sensor near the top edge of the film (film travels left-to-right). Elan II bodies are cheap at US$30, so you could buy one to try it.

Mark Overton

mnemosyne · Apr 15, 2016

mnemosyne said:
I own a Retina II and a Retina Ia and the sprocket rollers are indeed only toothed on one end.

I have to revise my previous statement. It is only the roller in the Retina II (Rodenstock Heligon 2.0/50 lens, knob film wind) that has the one sided toothing. In my Ia (Schneider Xenar 2.8/50, lever wind) it is toothed on both ends.

John_A · Apr 15, 2016

Konica C35 series has one sided toothing. Probably also the higher end S3 Auto.

Single Perf 35mm: Bulk Portra 160NC

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