Singing the praise of two bath PMK Pyro with Jobo rotary processing!

[Richard Man]

Most of you probably know more about this than I do, but nevertheless here's a blog post on 2-bath PMK Pyro that you might find useful or interesting. Super simple and easy to use. Sorry, the post does mention digital processing, but the developer itself, of course is used for "analogue" processing.

2-Bath PMK Pyro: My Go-To B&W Developer

I have been developing my own films since 2004, B&W, E-6, C-41, I do them all. I started with a Job CPE-2 rotary processor and upgraded to a CPA-2 when I started shooting 4×5. Now I even d…

richardman.photo

 

[BCM]

Two comments - one is that you do have to be careful about what fixer is used as some are going to remove/reduce the staining using Pyro based developers. The second is that anyone using expansion or contraction for a scene should really do some film development time tests and not just using 14 minutes.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have the processor and I have the chemicals including the fixer, but I have always mixed the two developer parts. I have to just do it as a two stage development. Thanks for the quick boot in the rear!

 

[bags27]

I believe water is essential for the stop. Acid stop will undermine the stain.
For a fixer, it should be alkaline, TF-4 or TF-5, I think.

PS. Love your website! I'll soon be in Palo Alto for a couple of days. maybe I'll be in contact?

PPS. I had never heard of Harvey's 777, but the photos on Instagram are really impressive. "Real" Harvey's is indeed difficult, if not impossible, to get (and daunting to mix by non-chemists). I don't know if they'll mix it to order here:

Photographic Products

Packaging Industies

www.bluegrasspackaging.com

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

one is that you do have to be careful about what fixer is used as some are going to remove/reduce the staining using Pyro based developers.

is this true and backed by actual testing?

 

[bags27]

is this true and backed by actual testing?

this from Photographer's Formulary:

PLEASE NOTE: An non-acidic fixer solution such as TF-4 OR TF-5 is recommended for achieving maximum pyro stain on the negative. A conventional rapid fix may diminish staining effects of pyro and PMK formula.

I believe that's Gordon Hutching's recommendation, too.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

this from Photographer's Formulary:

PLEASE NOTE: An non-acidic fixer solution such as TF-4 OR TF-5 is recommended for achieving maximum pyro stain on the negative. A conventional rapid fix may diminish staining effects of pyro and PMK formula.

I believe that's Gordon Hutching's recommendation, too.

Despite the recommendation from PF, I've been using Ilford Rapid Fixer or Hypam with PMK negatives for years now and have zero problems achieving lots of stain. I see absolutely no difference in the stain using these fixers as when I used TF-4. This caveat may be myth.

A different warning I have seen is not to use a wash aid like HCA with PMK negatives. This is definitely in Hutchings' "Book of Pyro." I haven't ever used a wash aid with my PMK negatives, but I believe others here have. Maybe some one of them would like to report on that.

I do know that treating PMK negatives in strong selenium toner (1+2) with the intent of intensifying them will remove the pyro stain. I've proved this myself.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Alan9940]

this from Photographer's Formulary:

PLEASE NOTE: An non-acidic fixer solution such as TF-4 OR TF-5 is recommended for achieving maximum pyro stain on the negative. A conventional rapid fix may diminish staining effects of pyro and PMK formula.

I believe that's Gordon Hutching's recommendation, too.

I have used many different fixers with several different pyro formulas and have never noticed any degradation in the stain. Actually, Gordon states in the "Book of Pyro" that he uses (or used) F-24; definitely not an alkaline formula.

 

[bags27]

Thanks! I didn't know any of this!

 

[Alan9940]

A different warning I have seen is not to use a wash aid like HCA with PMK negatives. This is definitely in Hutchings' "Book of Pyro." I haven't ever used a wash aid with my PMK negatives, but I believe others here have. Maybe some one of them would like to report on that.

I have used homemade HCA on 510-Pyro developed negs to remove residual traces of anti-halation dye and never noticed any affect on the stain.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have used umpteen staining developers, including PMK, and it is totally safe to use an acid stop bath (I use citric acid), and acid fixers (I use Ilford's Rapid fixer). It does not harm the stain.

 

[Richard Man]

I have read elsewhere that acidic bath / fix should not be used, but I have always used water and Kodak fixer and they seem to work so no point of me trying other things per se. I don't know if I would get more staining effect changing the fixer but my negs definitely do look stained. Looks like it works for some people though.

@bags27 Bluegrass was where I got my Harvey 777 from. It probably is bias confirmation but the negs just seem to have a glow to them with that developer.

p.s. some other place sells "Harvey 777", but they are not the real formula, but one based on Edwal 22, or something like that. See the Unblinking Eye article

 

[Eric Rose]

Awesome blog post! I will have to explore some other blog postings of yours.

 

[pmviewcam]

The idea sounds very interesting and I intend to try it. I am a little unclear as to your instructions though:

"Mix 2x the amount you need and put them in two bottles (step A and step B)

1. Use at least 500ml in each bottle for each roll of film (or 4 sheets of 4×5 or 1 8×10), and 700-1000ml if you are developing 2-4 rolls"

Do you mean making up twice the amount of PMK Solution (step?) A and Solution (step?) B in separate containers? Then first and second bottles of developer are Sol A and Sol B respectively? or do you make up Sol A and Sol B together and put it in 2 bottles? I'm assuming the former.

I use PMK in a CPP2 for FP4 in any format, and with sheet and 120 film generally. My dilution is 2x4x100 which I have found to suit my needs, but do use Foma rapid fix which doesn't affect the stain appreciably.

In terms of amount of solution, I use 250ml in the small Jobo 1500 series tanks for 2 rolls of 120, and 500ml for the 2500 series tanks (2x120 or 6 sheets of 5x4). For 10x8, 500ml in the two sheet tank. As I use a Jobo lift, your suggested solution volumes, except for the 10x8, would overflow in my case.

Looking forward to trying this approach.

Cheers.

 

[Richard Man]

Hi @pmviewcam sorry for being unclear, basically mix up twice the amount you need ( min 500 ml per roll ), then divide it into two bottles.

 

[Richard Man]

If there are better ways to say it, please let me know. English is not my first language