Singer Graflex RH20-insert 67/220 in other versions

[europanorama]

Have the Singer Graflex RH20-insert 67/220 with lever and would like to know in which other than RH20-backs i can use it. Wasnt there a thread somewhere telling that the are some variations which did not allow switching.
Would like to use it in RH8-6x9. dont have it yet obviously.
here are all RHs:
RH-12 (6x6cm)
RH-10 (6x7cm)67/120
RH-8 (6x9cm) for 120 size 220?
RH-20 (20exp 6x7cm) for 220 size
RH-50 (50exp 6x7cm) for 70mm film.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Graflex Inc's and predecessors' and successors' 120 film roll holders' shells will accept all Graflex etc's 120 film inserts. The RH-20 Insert will go into all of the shells you mentioned, also into Graphic and Graflex 120 shells, which have nominal 2.25" x 3.25" gates. Got that?

What you don't understand is that the inserts' film advance gearing is format specific and the shells' gates are format specific. Put a 2.25" x 2.75" insert in a 2.25" x 3.25" shell and you'll get overlapping frames. Put a 2.25" x 2.75" insert in a 2.25" x 2.25" shell and you'll waste film. The RH-20 insert should work in an RH-10 shell.

The RH-50 is a 70 mm, not a 120, film roll holder and its shell and inserts don't interchange with the others.

 

[shutterfinger]

*Some late RH film holders have a plastic pin on the insert with a seat in the shell. Once the pin is ground/filed down to the level on the surrounding material it will fit in the non pin holder shells.
Graphic 22 in a RH12 no problems
RH12 insert in a Graphic 22 shell no problems except for late production pin versions.
RH10 insert in a RH20 shell no problems
RH20 insert in a RH10 shell no problems
Graphic 23 insert in a RH8 shell no problems
RH8 insert in a Graphic 23 shell no problems
Graphic 22 or RH12 insert in a RH8, RH10, RH20, or Graphic 23 shell-overlapping images
RH10 or RH20 insert in a Graphic 22 or RH12 shell-excessive spacing
RH10 or RH20 insert in a Graphic 23 or RH8-overlapping images
Graphic 23 or RH8 insert in a Graphic 22, RH12, RH10, or RH20- excessive spacing

 

[europanorama]

6x7/220-Insert with lever named Singer Graflex. so its from RH-20 right?
To make it simple using it in RH-10 to use 120 and 220 with rsp. 120 insert.
Why overlapping of RH20(6x7/220)- insert in RH-8(6x9)? Mechanisme is in insert.
Only the bigger frame 6x7 in 6x9 makes no sense could lead to unwanted exposuring film, am i right?
Att: It seems i still dont understand all these RH-backs.
Are some not for 4x5? just measured an RH-10(from image) comparing to my RH-50(67/70) which is for 4x5.
for RH-50 i get factor 69 x 2.5=172mm
RH-10: 69 x1.85 = 128mm
Is RH-10 for 2x3 graflok?
if yes how are the 4x5 graflex-backs named?
Or are there 4x5 versions of the RH-backs with different frames.
when searching images i see two different plate-sized on RH-10s. totally confused now.
Its highest time someone is showing sketches of all the versions.

 

[shutterfinger]

Graflex, Singer Division was previously Graflex, A Subsidiary of General Precision Equipment Corporation which was Folmer Graflex, which was Folmer and Schwing Department of Eastman Kodak which was Folmer and Schwing Division of Eastman Kodak which was Folmer and Schwing Manufacturing. This company has used the name Graflex on some of its cameras for years before becoming Graflex Corporation.
Graflex is a name used by current machine tools and fishing rods.

Graphic 22 and Graphic 23 roll film holders were made to fit 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 cameras.
RH12, RH10/RH20, and RH8 roll film holders were made to fit 2x3 and 4x5 cameras.

 

[europanorama]

Michael, must you be such a helpless idiot?



Because the mechanism will advance the film 2.75" + the inter-frame gap. This is less than the gate's 3.25" width. Part of frame i will be exposed when you take the i+1th exposure.

Your arithmetic is incomprehensible.

RH-x roll holders were made with mounting plates to fit 2x3 and 4x5 Graflok backs.



Large format helps those who help themselves.

you like to be arrogant!

 

[europanorama]

seems very difficult to understand what i am thinking.
RH-50 seems to have a riveted 4x5 plate.
Maybe the other 4x5 RHx have removable plate e.g. getting 2x3 if removed.
I dont yet have the needed 4x5-cam. the backs cannot be attached to the MP4-slider.
but i will get MP3 soon.
-------------------------
again RH-20 insert hast its mechanisme inside.
Why should RH8 tell RH-20-insert then to alter spacing? yes larger format could be a problem. maybe one could frame it.
RH10 67/120 RH-8 220 insert is matching.
RH20 67/220
RH8 6x9/120

 

[Dan Fromm]

seems very difficult to understand what i am thinking.

Very. You're not a native speaker of Engllish. I salute you for trying to communicate in language that's not your own. Part of the problem, though, is that you persist in posing questions by making assertions that just aren't true. Another part is that you refuse to believe what people who know what they're doing (me, Charles Monday, ...) tell you. Both give a very bad impression, make you seem ignorant and arrogant. Not a good combination.

That said, what you want to do is very clear. The impossible, and you won't accept that for an answer.

To be more exact, you want to attach a 2x3 roll holder to a Graflex dividing back. No, won't work. That back is made for 4x5 sheet film.

And you want to attach a 2x3 roll holder to a Polaroid MP-3 camera and use it out-and-about. Might work but isn't worth the trouble.

Your best bet is to give up your obsession with using a found camera (that MP-3) and get a proper view camera. There are many inexpensive, in alphabetical order, Cambo and Sinar 4x5 monorail cameras on eBay.com. If you can't understand Graflex roll holders, think about Horseman. They work, attach to Graflok/International backs and Horseman's nomenclature is much less confusing than Graflex'.

RH-50 seems to have a riveted 4x5 plate.
Maybe the other 4x5 RHx have removable plate e.g. getting 2x3 if removed.

This is an old fantasy. Short answer, if you want a Graflex-made roll holder that attaches to a 2x3 Graflok/International back, buy a 2x3 Graflex-made roll holder. The ones that attach to 4x5 Graflok/International backs can't be modified to attach to a 2x3er.

 

[shutterfinger]

Your hieroglyphics, I mean pictures sir:

Left to right: Graphic 22, RH10, Graphic 23 all for 4x5 cameras. The shell cannot be removed from the frame, it is a single unit. The inserts can be removed. Foreground: Graphic 23 for 2x3 cameras.
Film gate (image size area) printing in photo 3 is within the image area of each holder.

RH50 was made for the Graflex XL only. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_2.html The adapter plate can be removed so that the holder can be used on 2x3 cameras. It will not fit 4x5 cameras.

The 6x7 image size is shorter than the 6x9 image size therefore a 6x7 insert in a 6x9 shell will have approximately 1cm overlap on each side of the exposed area provided that when advanced the next image is centered in the 6x9 opening. Clearer than muddy water?

Where are you located?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Charles, the RH-50 manual (see here: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/graflex/graflex_xl/graflex_xl.htm)
says that it was made to fit 4x5 Graflok backs and the XL.

Since when is 1/4" = 1 mm?

 

[shutterfinger]

mm changed to cm. I rarely go that deep into that site. I was unaware of that manual. If the OP has a 4x5 version it cannot be modified for use on another format.