Sinaron-W lens question

MTGseattle · Feb 10, 2023

I'm pretty bad at the higher level math. How can 65, 75 and 90mm focal length lenses all have a 105 degree angle of view? I feel like I must be tired and something painfully obvious is escaping me. If I can get 105 degree coverage out of a 90mm lens, why the heck would I spend 60% more on a 65mm? This question relates to what I guess are more recent copies of the Sinaron-W lenses. All have 105 degree etched into the outer ring.

MattKing · Feb 10, 2023

I expect that 105 degrees refers to the coverage, not the angle of view. It tells you what sort of capacity for movements you might expect.

abruzzi · Feb 11, 2023

yup--what Matt said, they are probably all the same design, so they produce the same size cone of light. To convert the 105º to a image circle size, see the formulas here:

Image Circle Coverage and Angle of View - how to calculate?

Please can someone explain how the Angle of View (in degrees) relates to the Image Circle Coverage (in mm) as quoted in View Camera Magazine lens tables etc? I realise that the term 'angle of view' has different meaning when used by view camera users compared with 35mm users, and understand the...

www.largeformatphotography.info

Ian C · Feb 11, 2023

With 105º coverage angle on the 4” x 5” format, a 65 mm lens gives an infinity focus image circle of 169 mm diameter. The shift limits from the centered position of the lens are 10 mm along the long axis and 12 mm along the short axis.

A 75 mm lens gives a 195 mm diameter IC. Shift limits are 25 mm along the long axis and 29 mm along the short axis,

A 90 mm lens gives a 234 mm diameter IC. Shift limits are 47 mm along the long axis and 53 mm along the short axis.

MTGseattle · Feb 11, 2023

Thank you all. That makes sense and was exactly a simple thing that I was missing for some reason. If any of the information I've seen holds true it looks like the Sinaron-W series is the same build formula as Rodenstock Grandagon-N. That 65mm doesn't offer a ton of movements on 4x5, but it's not a crazy expensive lens either.

MTGseattle · Feb 11, 2023

Ok, here's a post-script to the above if you will.
Sinaron-W 75mm f4.5 Vs. Fujinon SWD 75mm f5.6 Both are rated at 105 degree. I can get the Fuji for $100+ cheaper all day long. For most shotting, is that f-stop difference worth the extra money?
For further info, I will be trying to use the lens on a Speed Graphic which is why I will not go any wider for now. I already own a 90mm if I cannot get the 75mm to focus. If that does happen, I may source a Crown Graphic,

abruzzi · Feb 11, 2023

you will rarely shoot a ultrawide like a 65mm at wide open aperture, so really the difference is a slight difference in brightness when you're focusing/framing. 2/3 stop might help a bit but it won't be a huge difference.

xkaes · Feb 11, 2023

Lots of people get the "angle of coverage" and the "picture angle" confused. Throw into the mix, that they are often called other things, such as "angle of view", makes matters worse.

Dan Fromm · Feb 11, 2023

MTGseattle said:
Ok, here's a post-script to the above if you will.
Sinaron-W 75mm f4.5 Vs. Fujinon SWD 75mm f5.6 Both are rated at 105 degree. I can get the Fuji for $100+ cheaper all day long. For most shotting, is that f-stop difference worth the extra money?
For further info, I will be trying to use the lens on a Speed Graphic which is why I will not go any wider for now. I already own a 90mm if I cannot get the 75mm to focus. If that does happen, I may source a Crown Graphic,

Don't be so defeatist. The 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic's minimum extension is 66.7 mm. The 4x5 Anny's is 65.1 mm. I haven't checked all of the easily found modern 65 mm lenses for 4x5 but it seems that their flange-to-film distances are around 70 mm. All should work on a 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, whose inner and outer bed rails are linked. IIRC the Anny's aren't, so focusing a short lens on an Anny can be difficult.

xkaes · Feb 11, 2023

Most wide-angle lenses have flange focal lengths longer than their optical focal lengths. The Fujinon 120mm, for example, has a flange focal length of 133mm.

MTGseattle · Feb 11, 2023

I wasn't trying to be defeatist, just practical. There is a lot of Speed/Crown/Super graphic information out there. Some of it pertains to vintage glass, and some is direct user experience with more modern lenses. The standard party line is that it becomes "difficult" on the focal plane shutter models to use lenses wider than 90mm. This could simply mean difficult to apply any movements rather than simply difficult to focus. I'm not taking that as gospel, but that sentiment does appear fairly often. The 65 and 75mm lenses I've been looking at seem to have a decent overall size (fairly small) in relation to focal length and image circle. There is also the fact that I would like to use the lens for actual 4x5 shooting as well, and I'm not sure I want anything wider than 75mm. I'll scan the gallery for some examples.

xkaes · Feb 12, 2023

As focal lengths get shorter, image circles get smaller -- so there isn't as much lens movement available, regardless of your bellows or lens size. But in the type of photography I do, I find that as the focal length gets shorter, I don't need/want/use as much movement -- so the limitation has not been a problem for me. I do more tilting/swinging than shift/rise/fall. Your results may vary.

ic-racer · Feb 12, 2023

This might help also (link to The View Camera book):

https://esquerdadireitaesquerda.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/harvey_shaman__the_view_camera.pdf

Sinaron-W lens question

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