Sinar P3 ? Is this smaller than 4x5 ?

[harlequin]

Hello Happy 4th weekend!

Years ago I saw a sophisticated Linhof monorail that looked like it came from her Magestys Secret Service I think it was 6/7 or 6/9 format. Fast forward 20 years and I saw a p3 Sinar looking equally sophisticated and $$$ but judging from bellows looked like smaller format?

Has anyone used these cameras?
If so, what was the advantage?
Maybe I dare say digital option?
Is it like having a roll film back on LF camera?

Appreciate your input.
Be safe with the fireworks

Harlequin

 

[abruzzi]

the P3 was designed for digital and has smaller frames front and back, but I believe the carriers and the rails are mostly the same as the P2. There is also some electrical connections between the front and rear frames, presumably for the lens and shutter to communicate with the digital back. The default frames are smaller in the back than 4x5 and the front doesn't use the usual 140mm lens board.

 

[DREW WILEY]

They're scaled down and with micro-gearing for sake of digital backs and the shorter focal length dedicated digital lenses that go with that. And yes, $$$. No need for any kind of P when shooting roll film backs. Just get something like a used F2 4x5 or old Sinar Norma if you want a superb now-affordable monorail. An expensive low-clearance Maserati won't do you a bit of good on bumpy Forest Service dirt roads. Think of it that way.

 

[abruzzi]

there are a lot of options for dedicated 6x9 roll film view cameras, and of course if your 4x5 graflok/international back it can be used to shoot roll film.

 

[harlequin]

Great Analogy Mr. Wiley!
Time to jumpstart the biturbo…,

Harlequin

 

[RJ-]

Hello Happy 4th weekend!

Years ago I saw a sophisticated Linhof monorail that looked like it came from her Magestys Secret Service I think it was 6/7 or 6/9 format. Fast forward 20 years and I saw a p3 Sinar looking equally sophisticated and $$$ but judging from bellows looked like smaller format?

Has anyone used these cameras?
If so, what was the advantage?
Maybe I dare say digital option?
Is it like having a roll film back on LF camera?

Appreciate your input.
Be safe with the fireworks

Harlequin

I still have one as a relic from commercial work!

Not that I use it much. Firstly, with the digital 54H (or M) backs, the P3 is always wired into a laptop ~ it is studio designed use only and not for field work.



Every single item from the digital contacts of the lensboards, to the cables has a specific Sinar serial code for identification. Now, most of the parts are hard to come by and expensive to replace. The designed Hasselblad backs and the Phase One types and Leaf Valeo backs all require Mac OSX around the 10.4x operating system era. Even downloading the drivers isn't possible since this era of OSX cannot access the internet for downloads so it's a matter of flash driving between laptops to get the drivers. The joy of photography wilts fast in the face of digital advances

For operation of the focus, there is no viewfinder: only live view on laptop screen. This has the disadvantage of being inoperable without the correct laptop hardware and accompanying Palm PC (remember those?) to operate the focus and aperture/shutter. The advantage is that the live view on the laptop screen is more crisp and clear for correct focus and easier to pinpoint precisely without fiddling with maximum apertures of optical designed lenses since the LCD screen is illuminated.

The P3 is about the size of the Sinar F2. I used them in tandem. The P3 digital backs operate around 16MP however the sensor size is much larger than even contemporary digital sensors so the tonal scales are decent although 3x pass scans of the image makes it more suitable for still life, commercial product photography. There is a Sinar group still active on social media btw.

The lenses are in custom mounts and the lenses are all shutterless (digitally controlled only). As such they can only be adapted as barrel lenses although their superior resolutions are designed for the miniature digital postage stamp sensor sizes and not sheet film. In use, the P3 gearings are superior to the F2 or the P2 series and well refined. If the back can be swapped out for a medium format film back, it will still be larger than a Fuji GX680 series or a Linhof Technica although it is a pleasure to use the microgears. It is more compact than a Plaubel Peco which I use in the studio still but the cables and tethered operation are rather tiresome.

 

[DREW WILEY]

There was also the Sinar Alpina with a reduced weight rail. But I don't like the idea of gears at all, except for fine focus, on an outdoor camera, especially the micro-gearing of dedicated digital monorails. It's just too easy to get grit and sand stuck in them. I strictly used Sinar F-series 4X5 monorails in the mountains and desert for 20 years straight, and encountered just about every kind of weather condition you can think of, at least in terms of North America. The only exception was when shooting an 8X10 flatbed camera. Now I prefer a lovely classic Norma 4x5 - the components are interchangeable with F and P cameras too, but I've got nearly the same rigidity as a P at only a pound more cumulative weight than an F2, and without any redundant studio features which might turn out to be a headache in the field.

Sinar uses, even in the old Normas, a tough Delrin-like nylon gearing for fine focus. Sure, the finer die-cast helical gear rack & pinion train of a Technika or Horseman FA is a pleasure to work with. But it's almost impossible to beat the Sinar system for sheer versatility and component selection, and for sheer dollar value at present rates on the used market.

I know someone who prefers using Phase 1 digital backs on regular P2 4X5's. I'm well aware of marketing claims that it doesn't have fine enough focus gearing for that purpose. But this fellow can afford anything he wishes, and owns the largest finest studio I've even seen; and I'd defy anyone to get better results if they're forced to go digital to meet scheduling or publishing deadlines, like most commercial studios these days. There was a time when clients wanted the results by tomorrow; now they demand it yesterday.