Sinar Norma: Field camera

Darryl Roberts · Mar 2, 2021

Hi,

Any field case recommendation for a 5x7 Sinar Norma. Preferably lighter, in weight, than my Pelican 1600.

138S · Mar 3, 2021

The Sinar Expert case is very well organized and it has a charming attractive...

IMO your Pelican 1600 is something difficult to beat, if you have things inside well organized/protected then you can throw it hill down with no damage in the gear. This is peace of mind. Anyway you will find many lighter alternatives at Aliexpress/Ebay.

For hiking with the camera then IMO best is adapting a big/good muntaineering bag, cutting receptacles in a combination of closed and open cell foam, this requires a superior effort because we should spare space for clothes, drinks, meals...

CreationBear · Mar 3, 2021

If you don't mind a bit of redneck engineering, if you keep your Norma on the 6" rail then the 18-quart Hefty storage bins you can find at Lowes and other box stores work well. You can put a foam pad of your choice (or your dark cloth) at the bottom of the bin for a bit of padding, which will also to lift the camera body so the rear standards fit a bit better. (The bin is wider at the top than at the bottom.)

Otherwise, for my purposes I leave the lid off the bin off and slip it into a Lowepro S&F Transport Duffle (usually heavily discounted to around $80) if I need to tote it around, or as is more usual, slip everything into my expedition-sized backpack for a day afield.

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 3, 2021

I love my Norma- but it is not a camera I would ever think of describing as a "field" camera.

Darryl Roberts · Mar 3, 2021

CreationBear said:
If you don't mind a bit of redneck engineering, if you keep your Norma on the 6" rail then the 18-quart Hefty storage bins you can find at Lowes and other box stores work well. You can put a foam pad of your choice (or your dark cloth) at the bottom of the bin for a bit of padding, which will also to lift the camera body so the rear standards fit a bit better. (The bin is wider at the top than at the bottom.)

Otherwise, for my purposes I leave the lid off the bin off and slip it into a Lowepro S&F Transport Duffle (usually heavily discounted to around $80) if I need to tote it around, or as is more usual, slip everything into my expedition-sized backpack for a day afield.

Thank you very much.

Nokton48 · Mar 3, 2021

The original Norma Case holds a lot of stuff and you can stand on it

138S · Mar 3, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
I love my Norma- but it is not a camera I would ever think of describing as a "field" camera.

Perhaps we may agree it's a field monorail

Of course it is not a pure field camera, but for sure it is a versatile camera that's good for both the studio and for the field. The Norma was substituted by the field oriented F and by the studio oriented P, so we can say that the original Norma model was targeting both jobs.

Perhaps those concepts evolved through time... the Norma was released in 1948... The F is not a super-field camera, but is a field monorail. While monorails are less fieldable when we want a monorail in the field we may prefer a "field monorail".

Probably in this matter we cannot speak in absolute terms, all is relative... anyway the Normas have been fielded extensively.

Is it there a better choice than a Norma for this ?

Probably this 2021 a Norma would be a solid choice for that kind of adventure, personally I would not prefer a P or F.

...but no doubt, with a short focal a Chamonix (or what we usually call a field camera) usually has the advantage if not shooting challenging architecture.

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 3, 2021

Nokton48 said:
The original Norma Case holds a lot of stuff and you can stand on it

Those Sinar hard-shell cases aren't any lighter than his Pelican case. In fact probably heavier

138S said:
Perhaps we may agree it's a field monorail

Of course it is not a pure field camera, but for sure it is a versatile camera that's good for both the studio and for the field. The Norma was substituted by the field oriented F and by the studio oriented P, so we can say that the original Norma model was targeting both jobs.

Oh, of course you CAN use a Norma anywhere - it's just really heavy in comparison to a flat bed folding camera of the same size, which is not conducive to carrying it around more than 50 feet (20m) from the car. I love mine for use in the studio - it is a PERFECT studio camera. All the movements are silky smooth and precise, and it is easy to turn it into a serious macro camera for still life or small objects. And with a Sinar shutter, you can use almost any lens out there. But it is not a camera I would want to take on a 10 mile (17km) hike.

Nokton48 · Mar 3, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
Those Sinar hard-shell cases aren't any lighter than his Pelican case. In fact probably heavier

Back in the eighties I made a great many field trips with my 4x5 Zone VI tripod and Norma case. The OP wants preferably lighter but I could do it back then and not for ten miles, but for some that left me exhausted. What I liked is that is was clean and organized when I got to where I was going.

I used other methods of transport but this worked for me. I made an extremely padded strap and I still have it. Tripod went on my heavily padded shoulder

138S · Mar 4, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
But it is not a camera I would want to take on a 10 mile (17km) hike.

Yes... Probably the "field camera" term is a bit ambiguous. In some context it is a camera that's suitable to use it outside the studio, in other situations the term is used to describe lightweight cameras to hike with... or a heavier camera that is designed to be easy to deploy like the Master Technika 3000 4x5 ...but that weights 2,7kg. I'd say that "filed camera" is more an "adjective" than a "category".

for sure what is a field camera changed over time:

William H. Jackson "motorized" mountaineering bag allowed 22x18" glass wet plate ULF, sometimes having to melt/warm snow with his hands to obtain water...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Jackson

Today's LF/ULF practitioners are not that prepared for the field

CreationBear · Mar 4, 2021

138S said:
Today's LF/ULF practitioners are not that prepared for the field

Ha, those were some burly gents, no doubt.

At any rate, for myself I've found the challenge to getting a Norma away from the trailhead isn't so much weight or bulk, but the many sharp edges on the "undercarriage"-- I think you could use one of the function carriers to skin a moose or to baton firewood, if need be. Still, given how well the camera performs (especially if you've lucked into a great deal on one) I'm content to bang down the trail even when using the 8x10 back.

138S · Mar 4, 2021

CreationBear said:
Ha, those were some burly gents, no doubt.

At any rate, for myself I've found the challenge to getting a Norma away from the trailhead isn't so much weight or bulk, but the many sharp edges on the "undercarriage"-- I think you could use one of the function carriers to skin a moose or to baton firewood, if need be. Still, given how well the camera performs (especially if you've lucked into a great deal on one) I'm content to bang down the trail even when using the 8x10 back.

The Norma weights around 3.4kg, the new chamonix F2 or a Tachihara weights around 1,5kg... as mentioned in post #8, those additional 1.9kg are important in a 10miles hike... Still some reputed photographers use a Linhof Master Technika that may weight 2.8kg with the rangefinder removed (John Sexton uses the 2000 model, IIRC). The rangefinder adds 2.5kg to the Master Technika to reach more some 5,5kg and still it is field camera...

The Norma may save some weight in the tripod head as we can procure the roll adjustment by rotating the rail, so we may use a lighter head...

For sure the Noma likes outdoors, but it does not like long hikes, specially when hills are in the middle, still all depends on how much brave the photographer is .

Lachlan Young · Mar 4, 2021

I'd avoid the Sinar 'P' case - unless you have a particularly masochistic assistant, even though the case is incredibly strong & will carry everything you might need apart from the tripod.

Don't know where some of the supposed weights of the Linhofs are coming from, the weight difference from the side mounted RF is about 50g - at least between the current Master Technika 3000 (2550g) and the Master Technika Classic (2600g). Even the EMS module for the Master Technika 2000 (2550g like the 3000) is listed as only coming in at 800g. I'd definitely describe a regular RF equipped Super/ Master Technika as noticeably lighter and easier to handle than a 4x5 Norma. On the other hand, once over 4x5, the Norma doesn't seem to put on weight as rapidly as some 'field' cameras (Toyo's 810M being a case in point) - even so, if you don't need all the features of a monorail (and for landscape you really don't) I would not want to have to haul one a large distance from a support vehicle.

Darryl Roberts · Mar 5, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
I'd avoid the Sinar 'P' case - unless you have a particularly masochistic assistant, even though the case is incredibly strong & will carry everything you might need apart from the tripod.

Don't know where some of the supposed weights of the Linhofs are coming from, the weight difference from the side mounted RF is about 50g - at least between the current Master Technika 3000 (2550g) and the Master Technika Classic (2600g). Even the EMS module for the Master Technika 2000 (2550g like the 3000) is listed as only coming in at 800g. I'd definitely describe a regular RF equipped Super/ Master Technika as noticeably lighter and easier to handle than a 4x5 Norma. On the other hand, once over 4x5, the Norma doesn't seem to put on weight as rapidly as some 'field' cameras (Toyo's 810M being a case in point) - even so, if you don't need all the features of a monorail (and for landscape you really don't) I would not want to have to haul one a large distance from a support vehicle.

Thank you. It looks like I will by a Chamonix 5x7 for better portability.

Greg Kriss · Mar 5, 2021

Many a time I have backpacked my 8x10 Norma on a day's hike up a stream or gorge here in New England. Camera is packed disassembled (front standard, rear standard with bellows attached, rail, and rail clamp) with sheets of foam separating the items. Takes all of a minute to assemble or disassemble in the field, once one standardizes on how to pack the parts in an f/64 backpack. The first few times I took along a print of how to arrange and pack up the parts. After a few times doing this, I didn't need the print to pack up the gear. Did this once with an 8x10 P taken apart and carried in another backpack, and once was enough to convince me not to do that again. Somewhere around the time when I turned 70, I switched to an 8x10 Chamonix and carried a lighter tripod than my Ries. Always found it a lot easier hiking up a 3rd or 4th class trail with the aid of a walking stick. Walking stick was and still is no more than the "trunk" of a sapling, usually leaving it at the trailhead for someone else to use. Here in New England I have found it a common practice for hikers to leave "walking sticks" at the trailhead for others to use. Unfortunately most of them are no more than dead branches which I found totally inadequate and even dangerous when you needed to put your weight on them.

I did try using a Pelican case lashed to a backpack frame, but found the Pelican case a pain to secure and resecure to the frame. Lot more protection to the equipment but at the expense of carrying a lot more weight on my back.

DREW WILEY · Mar 6, 2021

The Norma is a wonderful field camera. I've backpacked well over 10,000 miles with various Sinar configurations, often in very steep high altitude terrain. No need for all the extra weight and bulk of a case. I use true vintage external frame backpacks. Ordinary lightwt bubble packing for cushioning, and light foam board sections for dividers is all you need, plus plastic bags for waterproofing. Admittedly, now in my 70's, I now use a little 4x5 Ebony folder for multi-day treks. But for day hikes, I still prefer the greater versatility and ease of use of the Norma. And I leave it completely assembled and ready to go, nested upside-down in the top compartment of the pack, suspended by the long rail protruding out both sides at the top. I use longer lenses quite a bit, and this arrangement has served me well for decades, even in severe mountain storms and steep ice climbs.

Sinar Norma: Field camera

Darryl Roberts

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Darryl Roberts

Nokton48

138S

TheFlyingCamera

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138S

CreationBear

138S

Lachlan Young

Darryl Roberts

Greg Kriss

DREW WILEY

Sinar Norma: Field camera

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