Sinar adjustment ranges

[Chuck_P]

I've been doing some heavy research on 4x5 view cameras and I have a question regarding the Sinar P2,X,F2. Why are their adjustment ranges in the vertical and horizontal planes so small? Forget, for moment, the type of photography to be done, can someone shed light on this for me?

"P2" : vertical rise/fall - 1.6 inches / 1.6 inches
"X" horizontal shifts L/R - 1.2 inches /2.0 inches

"F2" : verical rise/fall - 1.2 inches / 0.8 inches
horizontal shift, rear 1.6 inches / 0.8 inches
horizontal shift, front 2.0 inches / 1.2 inches

These movements seem small to me. Are they actually small? And if they are considered small, then why the heavy price, even on ebay? Any info would be appreciated.

Now, regarding the type of photography, outdoors, but not landscapes. More of the close in and intimate compositions, where, I think, the full movements of a view versus a field camera will be of important significance.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

They aren't that small, really, when you consider you have the same movements on both the front and rear standards, and since you have yaw-free movements on a Sinar and convenient scales and levels, it's easy to add more indirect rise/fall and shift when you need it.

 

[Chuck_P]

I guess because I have been comparing the the F2 to the Toyo 45GII. The GII has 5.8 inches of vierticle rise--I guess by comparison it seems like a drastic difference. I have no experience to know what these differences mean to the photography that is planned. I get the feeling that it represents a tradeoff somewhere, IDK. It's mind boggling to some degree.

 

[Sparky]

Why are their adjustment ranges in the vertical and horizontal planes so small?

Trust me - that's not small! It's more than you'll EVER need - and I've NEVER been in a situation where I've run out of movement - you will run out of image circle or have severe illumination problems before you run out of movement.

Case in point - vertical rise on the P2 ... 1.6" up on the front - 1.6" down on the rear - that's 3.2" of shift over the 4-7/8" or so of the longer axis of a 4x5 neg. That's a hell of a lot of rise.

I used to read all the tables in the back of View Camera Technique when I first started out - trying to find the camera that had the magic combination of the most flexible movements... before I realized there are far more important aspects than that to whether a camera is going to work for me... such as ergonomics...

 

[jd callow]

tilt the camera down, straighten the standards and you increase fall by as much as the tilt in the camera -- more than you'll ever need. Do the reverse for rise.

Jonathan is right on the money.

 

[LeeK]

The "rule of thumb" is 20° of combined movements w/good fast lenses, for example a 150mm or 210mm/5.6. Wide angle lenses range from a bit less to considerably less for the same reason. To check whether you will have vignetting is to peek through the corners of the ground glass...if you can see the iris completely you will have no vignetting...if the iris is seemingly 'touching' the edge of view, you will have vignetting.
Plus keep in mind if the 'optical bench' is tilted your rise will be affected. My sinar's (f & p) have been fabulous and rock solid during my professional career. I still enjoy using them and my clients still want chrome's rather than digital which I am personally gratefull for...I have not seen a ts lens that will accomodate the necessary control required for many shots we do.