Simple two-bath fixing question

brian steinberger · Mar 13, 2015

This is a pretty simple question. I'm using Ilford Hypam 1:4 for two bath fixing for paper. 30 seconds in each bath. My question is does drain time count towards the time? I drain 8x10s for 10 sec, 11x14s or 15sec, and 16x20s for atleast 20sec.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 13, 2015

Never timed it. When it stops dripping I move it to the next tray. I remember Les Mc Clean was asked this question and he said 19 seconds.

Rick A · Mar 13, 2015

I do 30 seconds then drain until dripping slows or stops, then move to next and repeat, then into a holding tray of water.

brian steinberger · Mar 13, 2015

Thanks guys!

Ian Grant · Mar 14, 2015

I've always used Hypam 1+9 for prints, that gives greater flexibility and economy when it comes to two bath fixing. At 1+4 it's quite an aggressive fixer and can bleach the highlights with some papers (particularly warm tone) if the times are exceeded.

Ian

Xmas · Mar 14, 2015

Ian Grant said:
I've always used Hypam 1+9 for prints, that gives greater flexibility and economy when it comes to two bath fixing. At 1+4 it's quite an aggressive fixer and can bleach the highlights with some papers (particularly warm tone) if the times are exceeded.

Ian

I use low concentration sodium thiosulphate A&B bath with a preacid acid stop, post hypo clear. I don't mind a longer time in fix baths, never detected loss of high light density, normally process for warmer tone.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 14, 2015

brian steinberger said:
This is a pretty simple question. I'm using Ilford Hypam 1:4 for two bath fixing for paper. 30 seconds in each bath. My question is does drain time count towards the time? I drain 8x10s for 10 sec, 11x14s or 15sec, and 16x20s for atleast 20sec.

for tray processing,I'd say 'Yes.Fordrum processing,I'd argue 'No' because, the filling time just about equals the drain time,and therefore,what you gain on one end, you miss at the other.

Ian Grant · Mar 15, 2015

Xmas said:
I use low concentration sodium thiosulphate A&B bath with a preacid acid stop, post hypo clear. I don't mind a longer time in fix baths, never detected loss of high light density, normally process for warmer tone.

It's the Rapid fixers which are based on Ammonium Thiosulphate that will bleach the highlights, far less of a problem with Sodium Thiosulphate.

Ian

pdeeh · Mar 15, 2015

The Ilford archival processing sequence requires 1+4 for 30s only.
Is there any point or practical reason to try and combine that with a two-bath approach (presumably ~15s in each) or would that be more of a needless complication?

Doremus Scudder · Mar 15, 2015

Ian Grant said:
I've always used Hypam 1+9 for prints, that gives greater flexibility and economy when it comes to two bath fixing. At 1+4 it's quite an aggressive fixer and can bleach the highlights with some papers (particularly warm tone) if the times are exceeded.

Ian

I'm with Ian on this 100%.

Not only is timing an issue (do I subtract drain time or not?, is the drain time different for larger prints?, etc., etc.), but it's really too easy to leave a print in the fix for longer than 30 seconds, resulting in a subtle degradation of the highlights. And, you get less mileage from your fixer.

The only possible advantage is that, if you manage to fix your prints completely in the minimum time, the paper base is not entirely saturated with fixer and the wash times can be reduced. The problem here is that there is very little leeway in fixing time this way; if you leave the paper in the fix another few seconds past optimum, the paper base gets saturated requiring a bit longer wash. If you leave it in a few seconds to little, you under-fix...

I prefer to be sure and give a bit longer wash.

Best,

Doremus

miha · Mar 15, 2015

pdeeh said:
The Ilford archival processing sequence requires 1+4 for 30s only.
Is there any point or practical reason to try and combine that with a two-bath approach (presumably ~15s in each) or would that be more of a needless complication?

Single bath is only good for about 10 prints if you want "arhival", you can go much further with the second bath. BTW, it 60 seconds not 30.

pdeeh · Mar 15, 2015

Quite right, I relied on memory instead of checking Ilford docs.
60s it is

RalphLambrecht · Mar 15, 2015

pdeeh said:
The Ilford archival processing sequence requires 1+4 for 30s only.
Is there any point or practical reason to try and combine that with a two-bath approach (presumably ~15s in each) or would that be more of a needless complication?

anything shorter than 30s becomes hard to control and repeat consistenrly.

walbergb · Mar 15, 2015

Doremus Scudder said:
I'm with Ian on this 100%.

Not only is timing an issue (do I subtract drain time or not?, is the drain time different for larger prints?, etc., etc.), but it's really too easy to leave a print in the fix for longer than 30 seconds, resulting in a subtle degradation of the highlights. And, you get less mileage from your fixer.

The only possible advantage is that, if you manage to fix your prints completely in the minimum time, the paper base is not entirely saturated with fixer and the wash times can be reduced. The problem here is that there is very little leeway in fixing time this way; if you leave the paper in the fix another few seconds past optimum, the paper base gets saturated requiring a bit longer wash. If you leave it in a few seconds to little, you under-fix...

I prefer to be sure and give a bit longer wash.

Best,

Doremus

That's been my thinking as well. I tend to fix for a few seconds longer, especially in the 1st fix bath. I use the Ilford sequence and my tests show that for my situation I have to add an extra 5 minutes to the final wash. I am intrigued with the process of using a 1+9 fixer concentration rather than the 1+4 that I have been using.

cliveh · Mar 15, 2015

I use Hypam 1:9 for prints and 1:4 for film and only use a single bath, as do most of the colleges and universities I have visited or worked in. I fix RC paper for 2 minutes and film (non tabular) for 6 minutes.

Sirius Glass · Mar 15, 2015

I do not time the hypo time that closely. Thirty second to a minute and a half extra would not make much of a difference.

Simple two-bath fixing question

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