Silverfast 9 settings for max-max resolution for negatives or slides, and JOB MANAGER

[PhilBurton]

Long, long story short,(and not worth explaining) I have Silverfast 9 but I have never been able to figure out optimal settings in a way that I can set up the scanner every time I want to do a scan. My scanner is a Nikon 5000 ED, with SF-210 slide batch feeder and the SA-30 filmstrip adapter. I need to scan 35 mm color slides, 35 mm B&W and 35 mm color negatives (old C-22 and newer C41) I've tried searching ChatGPT but the answers are pretty vague and general, so I have all these questions. My career was in software (as a product manager, but still) so I think I know my way around interfaces, but then I started to use Silverfast. But I digress.

First Question: What is JOB MANGER used for if I am doing as 36-exp batch with the SF-210?

Second Question: How would those settings be different if I am doing a 6-frame negative scan with the SA-30?

Comment: I have a mix of Kodachrome and Ektachrome slides, and I do know how to select the KODACHROME setting.

Third Question: For my Nikon scanner and 35 mm format subject matter, how do I set up the resolution settings so I get 4000 x 6000 pixel outputs? What does "print size" have to do with a 35 mm scan?

Fourth Question: Do I need to use JOB MANAGER if I am scanning a single-frame negative or slide?

Fifth Question: If the Filmstrip adapter is modified to do a full roll at one go, does that affect Silverfast settings?

Sixth Question: If all I want is a "linear" scan for post-processing in Lightroom Classic, what settings do I use?

Seventh Question: What settings for C-22 color negatives? C-41 color negatives?

Eighth (and next to last!) Question: Is it better to scan to TIFF or to Silverfast RAW?

Ninth (and very last) Question: If I want to have a combined Negative Lab Pro + Lightroom post workflow, how do i configure Silverfast? Do I need HDR Studio?

Thanks. I hope I haven't embarrassed myself with all these questions.

Phil

 

[xtolsniffer]

I feel your pain with Silverfast and the interface, but it is worth persevering. I have always had issues with some interfaces, especially anything Adobe, which never seems logical to me, and Silverfast does have a lot of idiosyncrasies. Many people will chip in and suggest VueScan, or digital camera scans with negativelab pro, and I'm sure for many of them it really does work. I have tried them all and still come back to Silverfast. It does what I need in that it is one place to scan and then process to generate an image I can post online or print. I can't be bothered to scan, then open in something else to process, and if you can get batch scanning to work for you, it can work in the background while you get on with something else.

I can't answer all your questions as I don't have a Nikon scanner, or version 9 of Silverfast (I have version 8), but I'll do my best.

1. Firstly, with Jobmanager, I don't directly interact with Jobmanager, but it's there in the background for when I do batch scans. If you look at it when you batch scan, you will see that each frame gets added there. Think of it like a queue for all your set up scans. You can go into it and adjust each scan if you want, but I like to set everything up first. When I scan, I preview the first image. I adjust all the settings to what I want in terms of film type, resolution, framing etc, then I preview the next etc etc for the strip/roll. Silverfast will remember all these settings for each preview. I then select batch scan, it will ask for the destination, film name settings etc, and then I click save and off it goes. At this point you will see all the frames added to the job manager.

4. no need to use jobmanager for a single frame, just preview, adjust and scan

8. Silverfast RAW is a specific format for Silverfast. Its a digital negative that you can then post-process but only if you have Silverfast Archive suite (also see 9 below)

9. If you want a flat scan for negative lab pro, there are posts on the negative lab forum of how to generate this in Silverfast and still be able to use infrared dust removal via saving as a tiff...

Good luck!

 

[PhilBurton]

No one besides @xtolsniffer ? If not here, what forum should I post these questions?

 

[George Collier]

My take on Silverfast - I use 9ai (it allows the 16bit grayscale TIFF, which can be opened in Adobe Raw, where I apply all initial adustments, including sharpening. I use an Epson V850 pro.

I don't use the Jobmanager, which appears to be a somewhat automated workflow tool, because I approach scanning like enlarging - one image at a time, and certainly wouldn't scan all frames of a roll of film, any more than I would print all frames in the darkroom.

I use the quite robust controls to prepare the image, from size and resolution (300ppi, and the dimensions I want - the pixel count per side is the result of these settings, not something I dial in). I use the levels (histogram) setting to establish the dynamic range, top and bottom of the range to ensure no clipping at either end (but full use of the range), then curve control to finesse the shape of the curve based on the image. I always choose the option for a second shadow end scan, which Silver fast does in the low areas at higher response, integrating it back into the scan, to optimize shadow detail. I do this because of something I learned many years ago in the graphic arts business - when transferring an image from a continuous tone form to a digital one (scanning), always shape the tonal range as much as possible before the image is digital - changes made after digitization can lead to artifacts like banding (stepping) and posterization, effects resulting from resampling, which takes place when editing in software (like PShop), although today's software is much better today than, say, in the early 90's.

I save to 16bit TIFF, open in RAW, then apply sharpening and some adjustments, like curves and maybe lens correction (for perspective things), then open in PShop.

I start with "contact sheet", the whole roll, in the printfile page, e-down on the glass with ANR glass on the top, large enough to make initial adjustments and evaluations before any final scans, even using adjustment layer curves to evaluate. I do not use sharpening or dust removal in Silverfast. I make sure the negs are clean. If they are old negs, I use a good cleaner, a antistatic cloth, and air blaster before scanning, and dust spotting in PShop is minimal.
I mount as many strips as 3, go through them one at a time in the Silverfast viewing window, referring to the contact sheet, frame and make adjustments one at a time, then use the batch scan, just by using the pull down menu, as xtolsniffer indicates. As soon as the first scan is finished, I start working in RAW/PShop while the rest scan in the background.

SilverFast (LaserSoft) has excellent phone support - number is on their web site.

 

[_T_]

You're asking a lot of questions that are highly specific to your scanner and software so it may be difficult to find other users who have the answers. Most users such as myself do not have silverfast 9 and can only help to a certain extent with what knowledge of silverfast 8 maps to your setup. Others of your questions are specific to your scanner and so I can only be so much help with those.

The print size selection basically does nothing. Always leave it set at 300dpi because you're going to need to change the file to 300dpi later if you plan to print and it has no effect whatsoever on viewing on digital devices.

You don't need to change any settings to scan an entire strip of film at once. You just need to draw a bounding box around the entire strip, but I would highly discourage doing so. Silverfast interprets the colors of each frame that you scan based on what is inside the bounding box that you draw when you are selecting each frame to scan. When you are drawing those bounding boxes you want to include as little of the rebate of the film as possible. The more rebate you include the further off in its calculations silverfast will be when determining what the colors of the scan should be. You can get some pretty terribly messed up results if you include too much rebate.

If you are determined to scan this way you should be aware that there is a limit to the size of file that your scanner can produce in one go. This is usually limited by the amount of memory available to the scanner and it's generally baked into the hardware. So you may or may not be able to fit the scan of the entire strip into the memory available depending on the bit depth, resolution, and size of the area you intend to scan. You will know because silverfast will refuse to scan when the file size is beyond what your scanner can handle and give you an error message next to the file size readout.

If you want to do a linear scan for inversion by another piece of software it is very simple. You set the bit depth to 64bit hdri and turn off all the other settings. Set negafix to other other standard (I believe this is the same on 9 but I'm not sure, either way set negafix to its default settings) close every window and panel that can be closed and set every setting on the panels you can't close to their defaults.


You do not need different settings for c-22 or c-41, especially if you are scanning raw. If your emulsion is available in negafix you can use that setting if you like how it looks but you don't have to. In fact you can use any setting in negafix for any emulsion you like if you prefer the way it looks. Plus it won't have any effect anyway if you are scanning raw. None of the settings have any effect if you are scanning 64bit hdri.

You don't need hdri studio but you might not be able to easily access the infrared channel without it. I do not have it and to use my dust removal data on my 64bit hdri scans I am forced to open my files in GIMP and copy the layer information over to photoshop from there. I don't know if this is possible in Lightroom I don't use Lightroom.

As for the scan resolution that you should use for a given dimension of file, you're going to need to test that for yourself. The maximum optical resolution of a scanning system is always somewhat to significantly lower than the maximum nominal resolution that you set in silverfast. You will have to scan the same frame multiple times at the highest few resolution settings and compare which one gives you the most actual resolution and decide for yourself what file size and scan time you're willing to accept for the amount of resolution that you want out of the scans. In my case the highest resolution setting in silverfast is a complete waste of time and produces zero increase in actual information in my files while taking twice as long and making files almost twice as large so I scan one notch lower than the highest setting.

I'm sorry I can't be more help. Like I say I can only speak to what I know and your setup is unfamiliar to me.

 

[PhilBurton]

You're asking a lot of questions that are highly specific to your scanner and software so it may be difficult to find other users who have the answers. Most users such as myself do not have silverfast 9 and can only help to a certain extent with what knowledge of silverfast 8 maps to your setup. Others of your questions are specific to your scanner and so I can only be so much help with those.

Just curious. What scanner do you use?

The print size selection basically does nothing. Always leave it set at 300dpi because you're going to need to change the file to 300dpi later if you plan to print and it has no effect whatsoever on viewing on digital devices.

Thanks. I wish that the UI had a single checkbox for "35 mm format input," but it doesn't.

You don't need to change any settings to scan an entire strip of film at once. You just need to draw a bounding box around the entire strip, but I would highly discourage doing so. Silverfast interprets the colors of each frame that you scan based on what is inside the bounding box that you draw when you are selecting each frame to scan. When you are drawing those bounding boxes you want to include as little of the rebate of the film as possible. The more rebate you include the further off in its calculations silverfast will be when determining what the colors of the scan should be. You can get some pretty terribly messed up results if you include too much rebate.

If you are determined to scan this way you should be aware that there is a limit to the size of file that your scanner can produce in one go. This is usually limited by the amount of memory available to the scanner and it's generally baked into the hardware.

I have done test scans using the scanner's SF-210 slide batch feeder, which has a capacity of 50 slides. I have successfully scanned 37 slides at one go.

So you may or may not be able to fit the scan of the entire strip into the memory available depending on the bit depth, resolution, and size of the area you intend to scan. You will know because silverfast will refuse to scan when the file size is beyond what your scanner can handle and give you an error message next to the file size readout.

So far I haven't seen this error message.

If you want to do a linear scan for inversion by another piece of software it is very simple. You set the bit depth to 64bit hdri and turn off all the other settings. Set negafix to other other standard (I believe this is the same on 9 but I'm not sure, either way set negafix to its default settings) close every window and panel that can be closed and set every setting on the panels you can't close to their defaults.


You do not need different settings for c-22 or c-41, especially if you are scanning raw. If your emulsion is available in negafix you can use that setting if you like how it looks but you don't have to. In fact you can use any setting in negafix for any emulsion you like if you prefer the way it looks. Plus it won't have any effect anyway if you are scanning raw. None of the settings have any effect if you are scanning 64bit hdri.

Thank you for saving me lots of time trying to figure all this out by myself.

You don't need hdri studio but you might not be able to easily access the infrared channel without it. I do not have it and to use my dust removal data on my 64bit hdri scans I am forced to open my files in GIMP and copy the layer information over to photoshop from there. I don't know if this is possible in Lightroom I don't use Lightroom.

As for the scan resolution that you should use for a given dimension of file, you're going to need to test that for yourself. The maximum optical resolution of a scanning system is always somewhat to significantly lower than the maximum nominal resolution that you set in silverfast. You will have to scan the same frame multiple times at the highest few resolution settings and compare which one gives you the most actual resolution and decide for yourself what file size and scan time you're willing to accept for the amount of resolution that you want out of the scans. In my case the highest resolution setting in silverfast is a complete waste of time and produces zero increase in actual information in my files while taking twice as long and making files almost twice as large so I scan one notch lower than the highest setting.

Good point. In Lightroom I have worked with 25 MB Nikon RAW files and iPhone JPG files from different phones and therefore different file sizes. With the iphone JPG photos (from my son photographing the grandchilden) even a 4" x 6" uncropped photo shows lack of detail. A lot of my slides and negatives are railroad and rail transit photos (I am a rail enthusiast), and a lot of these scans will need significant cropping. So before reading your comments above, my inclination was to scan at max possible file size. Note the subject for this thread:

Silverfast 9 settings for max-max resolution for negatives or slides, and JOB MANAGER​

I'm sorry I can't be more help. Like I say I can only speak to what I know and your setup is unfamiliar to me.

You have been extremely helpful. Thanks for your effort for such a detailed reply.

 

[_T_]

My scanner is an epson v600, which is a flatbed and very different in design from your nikon.

I have used a scanner like yours but that was maybe 20 years ago and I can’t remember much about the process anymore.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I am using Silverfast Studio 8 since I bought my EPSON V750, that's about 10 years now, and never bothered to upgrade to v.9.
I scanned the 6x17cm negatives with this combo for, amongst others, this book: https://www.photoeil.be/books/paris-dans-mon-gand.html
The printer (duotone + varnish off-set) was surprised by the quality of the scans, and the book was one of the best my work printed in.
The same files (TIFF) were used to (ink jet-) print the show prints of which one was 2,1m long (and 70cm high).

If you reed the user manual (several times), which can be downloaded in English too, then a lot will become clear...
I had the pdf manual printed and bound and toke it, in the beginning, as a guide besides me, and annotated, during the (steep-) learning curve.

But, I have to admit that not everything is that good translated from the original German text...
Anyway, to my humble opinion, it is worth the effort as this combo, together with some thoughtful PhotoShopping, is better than you would think of it.

 

[PhilBurton]

If you reed the user manual (several times), which can be downloaded in English too, then a lot will become clear...
I had the pdf manual printed and bound and toke it, in the beginning, as a guide besides me, and annotated, during the (steep-) learning curve.

Thank you I have already downloaded, but not really, really read the manual. To my perspective, for modern, well designed software, the user manual should be used only for learning unusual or advanced features, not for basics. Of course, one could easily and justifiably argue that Silverfast is not well designed for users, for all its power and functionality.

But, I have to admit that not everything is that good translated from the original German text...
Anyway, to my humble opinion, it is worth the effort as this combo, together with some thoughtful PhotoShopping, is better than you would think of it.

I can cope with the "translated German," since I have been to Germany several times on business trips. While everyone spoke good English, they often did not speak it as an English native speaker would. I myself speak moderate French, and I have had to struggle with the proper, idiomatic way to speak French, even if I know the vocabulary.