Silver gelatin print pricing

cirwin2010 · Sep 23, 2024

After some encouragement, I think I finally want to try selling my work. Typically I just make images for myself and so far the only print that has sold was a framed 8x10 that was displayed by my local print shop for ~$300. Most of that cost being the frame plus the cut the shop took.

I have a number of images that folks near the Boston/New England area might respond well to and I think I want to try to set up shop at an art fair.

I'm currently working on making reprints along with some new images.

What I am envisioning is a small number of framed and matted 8x10 and/or 11x14 prints. Typically I have my prints framed with antireflective museum glass. I'm currently having a 16x20 print framed and matted to 20x24 to serve as a statement piece. For this one I'm thinking of pricing it at $600 (cost $280 to frame).

Along with some framed images that would obviously be a bit expensive, I want to offer 8x10s matted to 11x14 and 11x14s matted to 16x20. I figure those would be easy enough to drop into a standard picture frame size. I'm not yet sure how much getting them dry mounted and matted would cost, but I think I would want to price the prints themselves somewhere between $0.70 and $1.00 per sq in., plus whatever the cost of matting them is.

Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas of stuff I should consider?

I'm not expecting to making any real money, especially at first given upfront costs of getting a body of work ready. But it might be fun and maybe I can recoup some cost of materials. I just don't want to price my work so high that it's not considered, but I don't want to undersell myself either. I do think some of my images are quite good and I want to reflect the many hours it takes to make said images between time spend in the field and hovering over a smelly tray.

Also thinking of printing some of my digital color work on metal as a more modern option for those into it.

grain elevator · Sep 23, 2024

To my gut feeling, the framing costing half of the total seems off. I would consider leaving the glass options to the buyer as anti-reflection glass is quite expensive and may be more or less necessary depending on where the print is hung.

xkaes · Sep 23, 2024

Start small. If people like your work, they will buy it -- and you can expand. If not enough of them do, you won't have spent too much money -- and don't take it personally. Many of us have been down that road -- and lived to talk about it.

logan2z · Sep 23, 2024

Here's a good video on the subject of pricing artwork - including fine art photography.

DREW WILEY · Sep 23, 2024

Frame shops need to make a profit themselves and cover their overhead. That's how those arrangements work. $200 per print for a basic no-frills framing service of a small print is about average. Otherwise, you're going to have to find some kind of more affordable DIY framing option, as well as some other venue to show your prints.

I got around all that by installing my own well-equipped frame shop and doing certain things even better; but that required space and investment, and then parallel to that, lucking out with some very good personal connections. It also required persistence and was a lot of work.

People are going to buy your prints only if they see them and especially like them. Yes, in theoretical business terms, it might make sense to have some kind of size/expense/sales price ratio to what you do. But buyers don't necessarily think in that formulaic manner at all. They might spend more for a small print than a big one if that's what catches their eye. Expect a tough learning curve with some financial loss until you find your niche.

Alex Benjamin · Sep 23, 2024

logan2z said:
Here's a good video on the subject of pricing artwork - including fine art photography.

Very interesting. Did have to watch the whole thing three times before I got anything out of it, though. Kept being distracted by the dog.

logan2z · Sep 23, 2024

Alex Benjamin said:
Very interesting. Did have to watch the whole thing three times before I got anything out of it, though. Kept being distracted by the dog.

Perrier guest hosts most of CAI's videos

Pieter12 · Sep 23, 2024

logan2z said:
Here's a good video on the subject of pricing artwork - including fine art photography.

Great advice.

cirwin2010 · Sep 23, 2024

logan2z said:
Here's a good video on the subject of pricing artwork - including fine art photography.

That video is helpful. It's somewhat in line with what I was thinking for 8x10 and 11x14 prints. It does suggest that my idea of $0.70-1.00 per sq in. is too high for a 16x20. But, that's fine since any 16x20 images I make are going to be statement pieces with processing and framing to reflect that. I'm only having the one 16x20 framed so far and I'm thinking I'm going to use it as a bit of any eye catcher rather than something I expect to sell quickly. It's going to look amazing so it will find some home eventually.

Pieter12 · Sep 23, 2024

Remember to take into account the cost of a spot at the fair, plus transportation costs.

cirwin2010 · Sep 23, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Remember to take into account the cost of a spot at the fair, plus transportation costs.

That is the next thing I need to tackle. Where I am going to try to set up shop. And what I need to set up shop (tent, table, etc).

cirwin2010 · Sep 23, 2024

xkaes said:
Start small. If people like your work, they will buy it -- and you can expand. If not enough of them do, you won't have spent too much money -- and don't take it personally. Many of us have been down that road -- and lived to talk about it.

Good advice. Yeah, I don't plan to start big. Going to just get a handful of things framed and choose to only frame the items I know will either find a good home in my house or that someone else I know might take. Maybe a bin of matted prints? I'd rather have a few really nice pieces than a ton of options. I make stuff in low volume anyways.

cirwin2010 · Sep 23, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
Frame shops need to make a profit themselves and cover their overhead. That's how those arrangements work. $200 per print for a basic no-frills framing service of a small print is about average. Otherwise, you're going to have to find some kind of more affordable DIY framing option, as well as some other venue to show your prints.

I got around all that by installing my own well-equipped frame shop and doing certain things even better; but that required space and investment, and then parallel to that, lucking out with some very good personal connections. It also required persistence and was a lot of work.

People are going to buy your prints only if they see them and especially like them. Yes, in theoretical business terms, it might make sense to have some kind of size/expense/sales price ratio to what you do. But buyers don't necessarily think in that formulaic manner at all. They might spend more for a small print than a big one if that's what catches their eye. Expect a tough learning curve with some financial loss until you find your niche.

I have a pretty good relationship with my local shop and they typically give me a better deal for the many pieces of work I've had them frame for me. I spoke with them today and I think they should be able to mat and frame an 11x14 print for under $120 (using less expensive frame, glass, and mat options) which I think is reasonable for my purposes starting out.

jeffreyg · Sep 23, 2024

Just a couple of ideas for you to think about. There are pluses and minuses about dry mounting, best to use acid free boards, some images look best with 8 ply window mats, wood museum frames that match work well for hanging a show. Consider contacting a local bank to hang an exhibition in a hallway that clients enter through or a common space or even an office building. Most likely those type spaces won’t charge you a commission on sales. You could plan a gallery style opening if the host permits. Even if you don’t immediately make sales you get good exposure.
I once had an exhibition at a large frame shop. At the time my then eight year old grandson was “helping “ me and a couple was picking up something they had framed. I told him if he sold them any of mine I would give him a big commission. He sold them two of my pieces and they later came to my house and bought two more unframed. My guess was they went back to the frame shop for frames. I gave my grandson his commission on those as well. I did come out slightly ahead almost as much as my grandson made.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 23, 2024

cirwin2010 said:
After some encouragement, I think I finally want to try selling my work. Typically I just make images for myself and so far the only print that has sold was a framed 8x10 that was displayed by my local print shop for ~$300. Most of that cost being the frame plus the cut the shop took.

I have a number of images that folks near the Boston/New England area might respond well to and I think I want to try to set up shop at an art fair.

I'm currently working on making reprints along with some new images.

What I am envisioning is a small number of framed and matted 8x10 and/or 11x14 prints. Typically I have my prints framed with antireflective museum glass. I'm currently having a 16x20 print framed and matted to 20x24 to serve as a statement piece. For this one I'm thinking of pricing it at $600 (cost $280 to frame).

Along with some framed images that would obviously be a bit expensive, I want to offer 8x10s matted to 11x14 and 11x14s matted to 16x20. I figure those would be easy enough to drop into a standard picture frame size. I'm not yet sure how much getting them dry mounted and matted would cost, but I think I would want to price the prints themselves somewhere between $0.70 and $1.00 per sq in., plus whatever the cost of matting them is.

Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas of stuff I should consider?

I'm not expecting to making any real money, especially at first given upfront costs of getting a body of work ready. But it might be fun and maybe I can recoup some cost of materials. I just don't want to price my work so high that it's not considered, but I don't want to undersell myself either. I do think some of my images are quite good and I want to reflect the many hours it takes to make said images between time spend in the field and hovering over a smelly tray.

Also thinking of printing some of my digital color work on metal as a more modern option for those into it.

Consider mounting, matting, and framing them yourself to increase your margin.

DREW WILEY · Sep 23, 2024

Ha! There was once a local drug kingpin who paid his child runners with candy. He never made it past 32 himself - some kind of competition dispute. But a lot of little kids turned out to see all the flower-laden Rolls Royces in the funeral entourage.

My first business venture didn't go so well. I worked two days cracking pine nuts, and then made only 8 cents on them. I was six at the time.

Now my nephew has shown interest in selling some of my prints; but he's only two years away from retirement himself. One of his sons recently acquired a Pentax 6X7 to take to Norway, but then found out he can't afford the film. I'm on the verge of asking my cat if it wants to be my next agent.

There's always some kind of challenge. Once you have all your little ducks in a row, in terms of connections and gallery representation, someone retires or dies, or some personal family emergency arises, and you have to start over. But if your priority is love for the medium itself, the rest of the bumpy ride is relatively easy to take in stride.

xkaes · Sep 23, 2024

cirwin2010 said:
Maybe a bin of matted prints? I'd rather have a few really nice pieces than a ton of options. I make stuff in low volume anyways.

I've seen lots of bins with matted prints at various fairs -- saves a lot of time and cost of glass and framing. I don't know if that helps sales, and how many prints is a good number. Maybe people think of prints in bins as "discounts"?

Another thing to consider is that SOME people who are willing to pay a "lot" for a print want to know what NUMBER it is. They don't want a 1 print of 10,000 or 1,000 or 100 or ?????

Pieter12 · Sep 23, 2024

xkaes said:
I've seen lots of bins with matted prints at various fairs -- saves a lot of time and cost of glass and framing. I don't know if that helps sales, and how many prints is a good number. Maybe people think of prints in bins as "discounts"?

Another thing to consider is that SOME people who are willing to pay a "lot" for a print want to know what NUMBER it is. They don't want a 1 print of 10,000 or 1,000 or 100 or ?????

Matted prints are easier to package and transport (both to and from the fair and by the customer) besides being less expensive to sell. Many people would rather have the photo framed themselves, choosing something that goes with their decor or other frames. Plus framing prices vary widely, from art-store, home decor shops (or even Ikea) off-the-shelf to quite pricey custom jobs. And with a matted print, it is easier to show if it is signed and editioned on the back of the print rather than the front.

DREW WILEY · Sep 23, 2024

One problem with mounted only prints in bins is that they tend to bend unless a stiff backer board is also included. Drymounting does make them serious looking rather than cheap-looking. I was never questioned about "limited edition" quantities. That's a problem with mass-produced fare, or sometimes a gimmick to lure people into buying something before the price of the next round goes up; for example, "edition of 100", when at that point only 3 exist anyway. But rules vary State to State concerning the language involved. Too much work is involved making fine images for them to become breeding in quantities like rabbits anyway. Simply call them real darkroom prints made by hand and people generally get the point.

eli griggs · Sep 23, 2024

I found that most artwork on paper, Watercolours, Photographs, Collage, Woodcuts, other Mediums, sell just fine without frames or in very cheap, black Walmart "Main Stay" frames, matted plastic frames with very thin, front placement glass, that'll pop out of roughly handled.

Larger image/papers than 16*20 inches, on good paper, (usually heavy paper) with or without quality alpha mat boards, will sell well, especially if protected by Archival Plastic Sleeves, with a back support including acid free, glassine barrier, between artwork and backer.

I sold, perhaps hundreds, of small works in 5*7 inch and larger plastic frames, mated with four ply Alpha Rag mats that I cut from full sheets and turned into nice window mats, for these sales.

(Thicker mats won't really work; they pop the glass out, regardless of when you're around .)

I believe anyone buying a print, photographic, woodcut or other art work should receive a good quality mat, and the cheapest frame possible, as many folks will put it into different framing furniture and appreciate not paying for a frame, which I don't really charge for, nor the cutting time and material of the Rag Mat.

Try using quality, self-sealing plastic (not shrink wrap) and a good, full size (of the print) mat board, with protective glassine sheet between mat and photograph and, if available
heavy corner protections, to sell your artwork, online or in person or in an Artist League or Gallery, and include a sheet, facing outward, on the back of the plastic envelope, explaining why you've used an envelope, your Consideration and your deferments to the buyer's choice of framing.

Cutting 45⁰ mat windows, by hand, is simple, with a good stainless steel straight edge, a good Logan may cutting tool, razors, one for every large may, pencils and a good, large 90⁰ square.

Practice with small, 5*7 inch prints and move up in size as you learn to cut near perfect mats

Cheers

eli griggs · Sep 23, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
One problem with mounted only prints in bins is that they tend to bend unless a stiff backer board is also included. Drymounting does make them serious looking rather than cheap-looking. I was never questioned about "limited edition" quantities. That's a problem with mass-produced fare, or sometimes a gimmick to lure people into buying something before the price of the next round goes up; for example, "edition of 100", when at that point only 3 exist anyway. But rules vary State to State concerning the language involved. Too much work is involved making fine images for them to become breeding in quantities like rabbits anyway. Simply call them real darkroom prints made by hand and people generally get the point.

With print editions, photographic or woodcut, etchings, etc. if I want to edition it but want to make more than in the current edition being made, I simply sign it like this; Name, Title, if any including numbered print name, and finally, print place number, it 47/100 O.E., the "O.E." stands fo " Open Edition" meaning I am free to print other open Editions with the notation after O.E. of two (2) or six (6).

Eli Griggs "The Longest Line", 47/100 O.E.

Or

Eli Griggs "The Longest Line, 1/25 O.E.

Or on a different paper or toned or size

Eli Griggs "The Longest Yard, 1/25 O.E. 2ed S(tate)

Just because an Edition is stated as " 47/100" prints, it does not mean all 100 have to printed at the same time, or even that 100 has to be printed, but make searchable which edition is was and the actual total printed/signed.

While on this topic, A.P. or Artist's Proofs can be up to about 10% of the edition printed or being printed, for the Artists to do with, as they wish.

For Photography, that percentage may be too high, so speak up those that know different, please.

As previously stated, buyers must be careful of fraud, by some, whom give invalid edition numbers, etc just to elicit a sale of a print and you must guard your reputation jealousy, 100% of the time.

Good luck, whatever you do and update us as you're able on which methods work for you.

Eli

DREW WILEY · Sep 24, 2024

It's good to discuss different approaches.

I've never printed more than of six of anything, mostly just one or two. But I have hundreds of different images in print fashion, including both color and black and white. Block printing processes are quite different, such as true lithography or woodcut, where the master itself has a finite printing span. In this State, it's illegal to sell photolithogrqphy (basically mass-produced posters, whether well done or cheaply so) as analogous editioning. Inkjet and so forth present new challenges in defining all this; but that's not my cup of tea anyway, so I don't worry about it.

In many cases, it's impossible to keep printing a photo exactly the same way. You get a request, but in the meantime, the previous paper you once used is no longer available, and the image needs to be reinterpreted. And now materials can be just so darn expensive it can be prohibitive to make a quantity of prints at the same time, especially if they're going to be mounted.

xkaes · Sep 24, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
And now materials can be just so darn expensive it can be prohibitive to make a quantity of prints at the same time, especially if they're going to be mounted.

That's where "starving artist" comes into play.

Pieter12 · Sep 24, 2024

The point of editioning is to get around the fact that a photographic print is easily mass produced, especially if it is printed digitally. If the print is part of an edition of 10, then it is more unique than if it is one of a few hundred. Open editions can cut both ways. Although silver gelatin prints are more difficult to make in large quantities, it can be done with some help and effort. Most well-know photographers from the last century worked that way, and today just their name and reputation is enough to give value to a print. I remember talking with Kim Weston once and he related an anecdote about his uncle Brett. Brett was working in the darkroom and Kim asked what he was doing. Brett was making prints of his Holland Canal photos and he replied, "I'm printing money."

snusmumriken · Sep 24, 2024

Have you considered selling the photos matted but not framed? Or is it important to you to have full control over the framing and glazing too?

Silver gelatin print pricing

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