Silly Photographer, Tri-X Is for (Rich) Kids!

Lee Rust · May 22, 2014

Many thanks, Doc.

lxdude · May 22, 2014

bluemooze said:
Seriously, do you just believe everything you read? And then repeat it?

The prices at B&H are exactly the same as they were then. Please say where you see these reduced Ilford prices and post a link to them?

The link is the one in the post you quoted, Ilford themselves. Why shouldn't it be believed that Ilford cut prices if they say they did? It's also clear that they only cut some prices.

That doesn't mean B+H will reduce prices if they don't want to- they can charge anything they want to.
Or it could be that B+H is selling out the product they bought at the higher wholesale price, and will drop their price with new shipments.

Roger Cole · May 22, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
well TMX is Delta 100, TMY is Delta 400, BW400CN is XP2 Super, and Tri-X probably equates closest to HP5 (plus Ilford has PanF, FP4, and Delta 3200 which have no kodak equivalents anymore).
But don't say that Tri-X and HP5 are interchangeable too loudly, or you'll start one of those hundred-page arguments. (I just haven't used either enough to properly tell the difference)

These are the closest equivalents but there are, of course, differences. TMX and TMY-2 are finer grained than Delta 100 and 400 but the Deltas are still very fine grained films. XP2 Super is a better film for wet printing, IMHO, than BW400CN. BW400CN is orange masked like regular color neg, for easier printing on automated machines using RA4 paper, but XP2 Super is not and looks like, and prints like, a regular black and white film (great stuff, and under rated.) FP4+ is closest to Plus-X though its response curve is a lot straighter. Delta 3200 is most similar to just-discontinued TMZ but available in 120. Pan F+ is really nothing like any Kodak film I've ever known. Speed is similar to old Panatomic-X but the look is very different (and it's not as fine grained, though it is quite fine enough as you'd expect from a conventional 50 speed film.)

Ilford films are excellent and I could happily shoot the rest of my life using nothing else for black and white, if they keep making the current line up. (Ok, I wish they'd make Delta 400 in sheets again! And XP2 Super in sheets.)

Lee Rust · May 22, 2014

Roger, these are very useful details. Thanks!

pdjr1991 · May 22, 2014

Don't forget that its not Kodak bumping up these prices. Its Kodak Alaris.

pdeeh · May 22, 2014

Yes, it's us nefarious Brits undermining American freedoms again ...

jp498 · May 22, 2014

Fp4+ can be substituted for tmax400 if needed (Just slower, and less yellow filtered, and a little grainier). in normal conditions. I'm at the flinching threshold for tmax400 sheet film, but have quite a bit in the freezer, so I'll keep using it and praising it even if I stop buying it sometime in the near future.

120 format film, Kodak is still competitively priced and top quality and I'll keep enjoying that!

darkosaric · May 22, 2014

What I don't understand is why Ilford is so much cheaper in USA than in Europe: 55$ instead 93$ for 30m of HP5+?
For Kodak one can say it is made in USA, but for Ilford? Shipping to USA is cheaper than shipping in London or Berlin ?

darkosaric · May 22, 2014

Greg Davis said:
It is possible that the reason is we do not have the VAT that the EU does, so the price difference is comprised of taxes.

Maybe - here is tax around 20-25%, in USA like 5-10%. But still - double the price?

Xmas · May 22, 2014

pdjr1991 said:
Don't forget that its not Kodak bumping up these prices. Its Kodak Alaris.

Correct but two things

EK put up cine film and processing materials by typically 15% Jan 14. They quoted increased overheads due to reduced sales volume. Lots of movie teams might have gone to digital consequent on a 15% shooting hit.

KA should have a cost of living/ cost of silver agreement with EK from when they settled their debt problems.

So we don't really have enough information to judge other than KA's sales won't improve too much.

wblynch · May 22, 2014

Funny thing about Kodak Alaris. It seems organic photo products like film, paper and chemicals is all they have that anybody is really interested in, yet those are the products they disdain and wish so desperatly to eliminate; thus eliminating themselves.

They will soon have their wish.

Snapshot · May 22, 2014

wblynch said:
Funny thing about Kodak Alaris. It seems organic photo products like film, paper and chemicals is all they have that anybody is really interested in, yet those are the products they disdain and wish so desperatly to eliminate; thus eliminating themselves.

They will soon have their wish.

Kodak seemed to have this wish as well. Rather than seeing the merit of their film products, it became a disdained association.

WinnipegTLRFan · May 22, 2014

Well this is just a theory but Kodak's business/financial woes have been no secret for the last several years. If memory serves they just recently got a new CEO. Maybe they figure they can recoup loses by gauging their customers?

I don't know. But I am trying to support my local photo shops and they only carry Ilford in bulk and it is cheaper and I like Ilford films just fine so I don't see much point in going to Tri-x

Truzi · May 22, 2014

WinnipegTLRFan said:
Well this is just a theory but Kodak's business/financial woes have been no secret for the last several years. If memory serves they just recently got a new CEO. Maybe they figure they can recoup loses by gauging their customers?

Yes, they need to gauge their customers, but I think you meant gouge.

yulia_s_rey · May 22, 2014

The thing I don't understand is why Tri-X cine reversal prices went up? Not as much as the 135, but still a slightly noticeable price difference - I thought Kodak Alaris and Kodak (KODK), the manufacturers of the cine film, were two separate companies.

kb3lms · May 22, 2014

Adorama also lists the same price now. Well, then the folks at KA are fools. Accept it as such and move on.

WinnipegTLRFan · May 22, 2014

Thanks Truzl. I did indeed. Silly typo but you are right kodak needs to gauge the response of their customers or they won't have any.

JW PHOTO · May 22, 2014

I guess when you still think you're top dog you do as you please. The one last photo store in my big city is also phasing out all Kodak stock(film, developer etc.) and still has Ilford on the shelf. I talked to one of the workers there to see if they would be getting any Kodak Xtol in and he said not if it were up to him. He said Kodak was not nice to deal with anymore. I didn't go any further and left it at that. I guess I'll order some of Freestyles Legacy Xtol clone instead. Of course they are also not taking in any film gear as trades and closed down there used film equipment section. They've lost me as a customer now since I would only go there to check out the used section, but would buy some 120 film while I was at it. Now my film will all be from online orders. JW

cmacd123 · May 22, 2014

I suspect that the Volume would be in the individual rolls - which are converted and packed in Mexico. The bulk rolls are probably done in Rochester. Still Bulk film takes unique Cans and Cores (movie film is packed in larger cans on a 2 inch or larger core and even the 100 ft rolls come on spool in a different can)

Ilford packs bulk film in a cardboard box which is probably less expensive than a can.

at 79 dollars a roll, the cost equation makes factory pack less expensive. The remaining demand is for things like 250 exposure backs.

Ken Nadvornick · May 22, 2014

Lee Rust said:
I've rarely used any Ilford film, but that might have to change. Can anybody post a list of the Ilford equivalents to the remaining Kodak B&W films? Thanks.

Hi Lee,

In addition to the other fine responses already given above, here are the official Ilford Photo Competitor Equivalents recommendations. There are currently three PDF documents available, one each for Agfa-to-Ilford, Forte-to-Ilford, and Kodak-to-Ilford.

Ilford Products Competitor Equivalents

Ken

WinnipegTLRFan · May 22, 2014

I seem to have gotten lucky ending up in a city with a pretty large community of film photographers and two thriving chains that have several locations in town. One chain even uses the fact it has the largest selection of film in Canada as a selling point in 2014. One thing that has happen recently that mystifies all of us is that LOMO has decided basically to dump all third party dealers here in Canada as near as I can tell which is another company making a stupid move on the film front if you ask me. I have a love/hate relationship with LOMO but they help keep my film obsession profitable so I see it as a loss. For a guy who loves shooting film and FSU and Eastern bloc cameras it is a shame to see another source of good film making bizarre and potentially costly business moves.

AgX · May 22, 2014

Greg Davis said:
It is possible that the reason is we do not have the VAT that the EU does, so the price difference is comprised of taxes.

But there also are import duties to be paid.

But, in first instance a price is made according the respective market. Not with a foreign market in mind.

Tom1956 · May 22, 2014

Something about the term "value added tax" just galls me. Of course if they called it what it really is, they'd have riots.

Lee Rust · May 22, 2014

Ken, that is certainly a complete list. Thank you very much! I'll have to take a close look at the Ilford site to see what else they're up to.

I can't imagine Kodak ever publishing such a document, but I suppose that's the ultimate point of this discussion.

JW PHOTO · May 22, 2014

Lee Rust said:
Ken, that is certainly a complete list. Thank you very much! I'll have to take a close look at the Ilford site to see what else they're up to.

I can't imagine Kodak ever publishing such a document, but I suppose that's the ultimate point of this discussion.

Kodak used to be "NUMBER ONE" when it came to publications and had all kinds of literature on every product they made. You don't have to publish a competitors equivalent when your "NUMBER ONE"! It's up to them to publish what they think is their equivalent to your product. JW

Silly Photographer, Tri-X Is for (Rich) Kids!

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