Signature on fiber print

Jessestr · Jul 4, 2016

I recently finished my first exhibition ever. Printed everything on fiber myself (Adox MCC 110). However about 10 prints were sold and I wonder how people sign there prints? There actually little room to do so, since I have only 2cm borders on the print itself and some of it is hidden under the frame. Should I write it on the back of the frame or on the back of the fiber print?

Also, with what type of pen is it SAFE to write on fiber?

Thanks

Bob Carnie · Jul 4, 2016

Jessestr said:
I recently finished my first exhibition ever. Printed everything on fiber myself (Adox MCC 110). However about 10 prints were sold and I wonder how people sign there prints? There actually little room to do so, since I have only 2cm borders on the print itself and some of it is hidden under the frame. Should I write it on the back of the frame or on the back of the fiber print?

Also, with what type of pen is it SAFE to write on fiber?

Thanks

My advice is too late as you have already printed , but I always add a very generous border around my image, I would sign with pencil on the back in the white area or non image area , so for now sign really small.

If I mount a print I will sign on the mount just close to the print in pencil as well.

Jessestr · Jul 4, 2016

Bob Carnie said:
My advice is too late as you have already printed , but I always add a very generous border around my image, I would sign with pencil on the back in the white area or non image area , so for now sign really small.

If I mount a print I will sign on the mount just close to the print in pencil as well.

Thank you. Next time I'll be adding a bigger border at the bottom for this. There's little info over how to do it correctly, at least with good examples and correct measurements. Won't pencil be eraseable?

paul ron · Jul 4, 2016

sign the matt board its mounted on.

greg zinselmeier · Jul 4, 2016

Every print ( lithography, etching, mono, FB, Kalie type, van dyke, salt, etc. . . . . ) was signed pencil! BTY the mat IS NOT THE PIECE OF ART!!!!! you sign the art not the packaging. anyone can throw that away!!!! do not be that person who signs the mat board

spijker · Jul 4, 2016

Nice to see that your exhibit went well. It seems that all your hard work was worth it. Well done! With respect to the signing, I sign at the back of the print with an archival pigment marker (Sakura Pigma). I only started doing this recently as I made a few prints for the model. I never sold anything. Search Apug as there are already a few threads on this topic.

Jessestr · Jul 4, 2016

Thanks for the comments everyone.

spijker said:
Nice to see that your exhibit went well. It seems that all your hard work was worth it. Well done! With respect to the signing, I sign at the back of the print with an archival pigment marker (Sakura Pigma). I only started doing this recently as I made a few prints for the model. I never sold anything. Search Apug as there are already a few threads on this topic.

Thank you. Didn't know you knew about this! Much people came over and lots of them were stunned I did everything myself in the darkroom. So much satisfaction.. I cannot wait to start a new project. Aren't you scared the ink will go into the deep fibers..?

I have a very fine Staedtler pigment liner 0.2 (indelible - waterproof on paper and lightfast). Or should I just use pencil

Gerald C Koch · Jul 4, 2016

Sign the back of the print, plenty of room. Once you have done this you can sign the matt for a visible signature. Use a very soft grade of pencil to avoid pressure that might damage the print.

You can also write on the front of the print using tincture of iodine. This works as a rehalogenating reducer leaving white lettering on a darker background. For permanence the print should be refixed to remove any silver halide in the signature. You can get pen nibs and pens at art supply sites. Wash the nib after use as the iodine will corrode it. This practice was very common when Hollywood stars signed their publicity photos. Such a signature is permanent and cannot be changed.

bdial · Jul 4, 2016

Gerald's suggestion is what I do, sign and date the back of the print in pencil, and another on the window matt. I don't dry mount so the signature on the back of the print is always available.
I use rag board for the matt, it's as archival as the print. If some new owner wants to change it for some reason, losing the signature isn't my problem any more. I wish that was more of a problem with my work.

spijker · Jul 4, 2016

I've been following your posts as you ask relevant questions and give us feedback on how things go. Both here on Apug and Analoog Foto Forum (ik zit daar ook, zij het voornamelijk als lurker). I had a look at your website and I think you're doing well. I find it refreshing to see a young guy like you (22?) taking darkroom printing seriously and willing to put a bit of money into it to buy good equipment.

I did some searching on the web about the potential bleeding of the pigment marker into the paper over time but from what I've read this doesn't seem to be the case with the Sakura. I suspect that the same applies to the Steadtler pigment liner. If you want to play it really safe use pencil. But yes, that can be erased. Not sure if that is something that we should worry about. In theory someone could erase your signature and claim the print as his/hers but if that scenario is realistic? I always print with small borders, 1 cm is sufficient for framing with a mat. I leave about 3 mm of the border visible inside the mat opening. So I can only sign at the back.

Jessestr · Jul 4, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
Sign the back of the print, plenty of room. Once you have done this you can sign the matt for a visible signature. Use a very soft grade of pencil to avoid pressure that might damage the print.

You can also write on the front of the print using tincture of iodine. This works as a rehalogenating reducer leaving white lettering on a darker background. For permanence the print should be refixed to remove any silver halide in the signature. You can get pen nibs and pens at art supply sites. Wash the nib after use as the iodine will corrode it. This practice was very common when Hollywood stars signed their publicity photos. Such a signature is permanent and cannot be changed.

I don't have a mat. I got the frames from a store which provided them for my exhibition, the only downside there were not mats. I didn't mind as I got 27 frames for free, had to give them back though and only bought the amount of frames for the pictures that had been sold. Next time I want mats. Is there a downside to not having a mat? I tried to wash my prints as careful as possible. For the next time I'll get better frames etc, it was a first anyways.

spijker said:
I've been following your posts as you ask relevant questions and give us feedback on how things go. Both here on Apug and Analoog Foto Forum (ik zit daar ook, zij het voornamelijk als lurker). I had a look at your website and I think you're doing well. I find it refreshing to see a young guy like you (22?) taking darkroom printing seriously and willing to put a bit of money into it to buy good equipment.

I did some searching on the web about the potential bleeding of the pigment marker into the paper over time but from what I've read this doesn't seem to be the case with the Sakura. I suspect that the same applies to the Steadtler pigment liner. If you want to play it really safe use pencil. But yes, that can be erased. Not sure if that is something that we should worry about. In theory someone could erase your signature and claim the print as his/hers but if that scenario is realistic? I always print with small borders, 1 cm is sufficient for framing with a mat. I leave about 3 mm of the border visible inside the mat opening. So I can only sign at the back.

Yes, although less active on AFF. I'm 23 since march yes . I have a few friends who like the darkroom work but I might take it too seriously haha. This year I got myself a laborator, washmaster eco and nova fiber dryer as well as a durst ut100. I'm running out of space! I find the process so interesting and rewarding, can't imagine doing this in a digital way. Buying a digital camera and a printer? I don't know just doesn't sound right.

Thanks for the help again!

Slixtiesix · Jul 4, 2016

Real Pros take a shot of their signature on document film and burn it in on the white border. Exposure must be short enough not to spoil the white´s brightness of course. However, most artists just sign with pencil on the back of the image. Don´t forget the numbering...

Patrick Robert James · Jul 4, 2016

Pretty much every print I have ever seen is either signed on the back or signed in the lower right margin. A lot of people who mat their prints tight to the image also sign the mat. If you want your signature to show then sign it on the front in the margin or sign the mat. Use a pencil to sign and a hard surface like glass under the print if you sign the back.

Signing over the image is a relic from the early days of photography when photographers were trying to make their images look like paintings which of course needed to be signed over the paint since painters use the whole canvas. I think most people would feel that a signature in the image area is distracting and ruins the image.

That said, it is your work so you should do whatever you want.

Bob Carnie · Jul 4, 2016

Slixtiesix said:
Real Pros take a shot of their signature on document film and burn it in on the white border. Exposure must be short enough not to spoil the white´s brightness of course. However, most artists just sign with pencil on the back of the image. Don´t forget the numbering...

Commercial marketing prints yes, but not art prints.

Doremus Scudder · Jul 4, 2016

I trim my images exactly; there is no border. I lightly sign the back of each print with soft pencil before dry-mounting it to a cotton rag board. Yes, the signature is then not visible, but could be detected with infrared or x-ray. The print and the board to which it is mounted comprises the entire work of art as far as I'm concerned, since I choose mat color and quality depending on the image. So, yes, I sign the mat board, in pencil, just under the bottom-right corner of the image. The window in the overmat is cut to allow a border of the undermat to show, along with the signature.

I also stamp the back of the mat board in the upper-right corner with a rubber stamp and using archival ink. The stamp says "Photograph by Doremus Scudder" and has places to enter the title, location and date as well as the print number. These I enter with pencil. I could use ink as well, I suppose.

This is a classic way to present art photos and is used by many. I know there is a trend to avoid dry-mounting, but I prefer the exact borders I get this way and the flatness it provides. Using cotton-rag board and archival dry-mount tissue along with proper display and storage should ensure maximum longevity.

Best,

Doremus

studiocarter · Jul 4, 2016

My one and only Fiber print on glossy Arista 16x20 paper was signed by me on the front with a Sharpie fine tip pen. Then I toned it later. It was fine until it got to the Photo Flow and totally came off.
Pencil only dented the paper and did not actually write on it. That was on the front.

Nodda Duma · Jul 4, 2016

I sign the sheet in the lower righ-hand corner with soft pencil in the dark before exposing the print on the enlarger. Results in a very subtle but permanent signature.

MattKing · Jul 4, 2016

Nodda Duma said:
I sign the sheet in the lower righ-hand corner with soft pencil in the dark before exposing the print on the enlarger. Results in a very subtle but permanent signature.

Interesting. Do you ever inadvertently end up with an upside down signature in the top border?

Nodda Duma · Jul 5, 2016

MattKing said:
Interesting. Do you ever inadvertently end up with an upside down signature in the top border?

No. I should have said "just prior," meaning when it's in the easel ready to expose.

Kevin Harding · Jul 5, 2016

Nodda Duma said:
No. I should have said "just prior," meaning when it's in the easel ready to expose.

Do you sign on the image area or in the margin? Both seem interesting if you sign prior to exposure of the paper.

Nodda Duma · Jul 5, 2016

Hi Kevin,

I sign in the exposed area. The prints that I sign are enlargements or contact prints of dry plate negatives, which very often have dark edges due to how the emulsion flows and sets on the glass plate. Therefore I am signing in dark portions of the print. So you can easily imagine the result of blocking light during exposure.

At first I would try erasing the graphite after the print had dried, leaving a light signature on a dark background. I stopped doing this pretty quick as this was hard to do without mucking up the print. So now it just looks like a graphite signature on a black background..and if ever removed reveals a faint permanent signature in the print. It is very subtle so it doesn't draw your attention and intrude on the print itself per se.

I'll post a photo of the signature when I get home if you're interested in seeing it.

Kevin Harding · Jul 5, 2016

Nodda Duma said:
Hi Kevin,

I sign in the exposed area. The prints that I sign are enlargements or contact prints of dry plate negatives, which very often have dark edges due to how the emulsion flows and sets on the glass plate. Therefore I am signing in dark portions of the print. So you can easily imagine the result of blocking light during exposure.

At first I would try erasing the graphite after the print had dried, leaving a light signature on a dark background. I stopped doing this pretty quick as this was hard to do without mucking up the print. So now it just looks like a graphite signature on a black background..and if ever removed reveals a faint permanent signature in the print. It is very subtle so it doesn't draw your attention and intrude on the print itself per se.

I'll post a photo of the signature when I get home if you're interested in seeing it.

That might be quite lovely to see. I like this idea - I can definitely imagine the result of blocking light and imagine that the prints look lovely.

DREW WILEY · Jul 5, 2016

I've seen many museum pieces signed in pencil. I don't like signing my prints margins at all because it tends to compete with the image, but have done so on request. Prefer to do it on the back.

Nodda Duma · Jul 6, 2016

Kevin Harding said:
That might be quite lovely to see. I like this idea - I can definitely imagine the result of blocking light and imagine that the prints look lovely.

Hi Kevin,

I've attached here a picture I took of what it looks like when signed prior to exposure of the print. On this one, after development and drying, I very lightly erased the name and year to reveal the unexposed trace of my signature. So this is an exception to my rule of not erasing the pencil marks after the print dries. The "#1" I think I wrote afterwards, so you can see how graphite written after the fact compares to writing before exposure. This particular one was matted and framed, and my signature is as permanent as the print.

Kevin Harding · Jul 6, 2016

Thank you for sharing!

Signature on fiber print

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