side by side Leica M/Mamiya 7ii

hello APUGers could someone with access to both an M and an M7ii please post a side by side picture ? im thinking about snagging the Mamiya but i'm a bit concerned about its size. also... does anyone know of a Mamiya dealer in Berlin ?

thanks'

Can't help you with a dealer in Berlin, but here's a pic of a Mamiya 7 with a Leica M4P.

thanks a lot Suzanne, i didn't know the M7ii was that much bigger. i think i changed my mind thanks again !

Leica is a great camera, but you can't beat a larger negative!

Jeff

The Mamiya 7II is larger, but very lightweight. I traveled around Italy with two bodies and a set of lenses. Wasn't an issue.

This image was made with a 7II (not from Italy - grin):

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I have both and they are great cameras. On the issue of size, I actually find the Leica too small. I have trouble with the aperture controls on normal and short lenses. But, I'm 6'2" tall and I have pretty big hands.

i hear you Jeff and i agree but i'm not sure i would feel comfortable carrying a bigger body and a longer lens (80mm F4.)

Jeff Kubach said:

Leica is a great camera, but you can't beat a larger negative!

Jeff

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that's a great looking photograph.

Pinholemaster said:

The Mamiya 7II is larger, but very lightweight. I traveled around Italy with two bodies and a set of lenses. Wasn't an issue.

This image was made with a 7II (not from Italy - grin):

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well there we go. i'm only 5ft9. "carnies, circus folk, nomads you know, smell like cabbage, small hands..."

Allen Friday said:

On the issue of size, I actually find the Leica too small. I have trouble with the aperture controls on normal and short lenses. But, I'm 6'2" tall and I have pretty big hands.

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If you want the bigger format (6x7cm) and the same weight like a Leica M and a fixed lens 3,5/80mm is not a problem you should look at the Fuji/Cosina Voigtländer Bessa III 667. It's a real compact folder 6x6cm and 6x7cm format camera.

LChanyungco said:

i hear you Jeff and i agree but i'm not sure i would feel comfortable carrying a bigger body and a longer lens (80mm F4.)

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Longer lens? The 80mm is about the lightest/smallest lens for that camera. It's smaller than the 43mm, 65mm, and 150mm etc. It's pretty darn light and about as easy to use as any other 35mm out there. Go for the bigger negative and the best possible glass out there, it surely cannot disappoint.

Look at the Mamiya , it looks like a cheap vacuum cleaner. If you need bigger negatives and if you have money , you can find elegant cameras like Linhof. But if you need to buy from these two , nothing beats Leica.

By longer I meant physically longer than the 50&35mm Summicrons I currently use. I want the bigger negative but after seeing Suzzane's size comp. I don't think the 7ii is for me right now. Thanks for the replies everyone.

Klainmeister said:

Longer lens? The 80mm is about the lightest/smallest lens for that camera. It's smaller than the 43mm, 65mm, and 150mm etc. It's pretty darn light and about as easy to use as any other 35mm out there. Go for the bigger negative and the best possible glass out there, it surely cannot disappoint.

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Damn that Mamiya thing is one ugly looking chunk of plastic.

Well, if I may share my opinion:
The available Leica lenses I think give much more pleasing out of focus rendition than any of the Mamiya lenses do. I have used Mamiya cameras, and their lenses are sooooo sharp and exhibit amazing contrast. But, and this is a big deal for me, I just don't like how the out of focus stuff looks.

And, with a Leica rangefinder, you do have a much less bulky camera that is capable of making negatives that far exceed many people's wildest imagination. 35mm is a very capable print making medium, if you know how to apply your skill to get there. Having an enlarger that lives up to the quality of the camera is a great start!

If you don't care about the out of focus stuff, then the Mamiya 7 will probably give you better print quality. But print quality is subjective. If you want grain in your prints, 35mm is much better. If you don't want any, you still have options with films like TMax 100 or Acros, which will give you an almost grain free 16x20 print. But if you want grain free, you should probably shoot digital (to quote a good friend)... Jokes aside, picture quality is subjective.

Here's the most important thing: You have to plan this carefully, because odds are you will make the wrong decision if you don't. I think both cameras are more than capable tools with which you can make amazing prints. But you have to examine how you're going to use the camera. Do you want to travel with 120 film? Or 35mm? What speed will you use? How do you like wide apertures? (f/4 for the 80mm is hardly making the Mamiya lens fast). Do you want to use a tripod a lot? Or hand hold? (How about an f/1.4 35mm Summicron at 1/15th of a second, compared to an f/4 80mm Sekor at 1/60th of a second? That is no less than a five (5!) stop difference with the same film, which is HUGE). Do you mind that you only get 10/12 shots with the Mamiya? Or do you like getting 36 shots per roll? Do you hate loading a Leica?

There are so many considerations that I think are almost more important than ultimate picture quality, because surely both cameras have enough of that.

If by looking at the photo the camera is too big then it likely will in use. I have a Mamiya 7 and it is much bulkier in use than the M. I have to change styles somewhat. The M is much niftier... faster and sweeter handling for the tight/quick stuff. As Thomas B says, with a good lens on there and half decent technique the prints are amazing.

I don't mind the bokeh of the Mamiya lenses myself, but tend to shoot them more stopped down so its practically irrelevant for me. if I had to keep one, it would be the Leica system. The Mamiya is amazing when that detail is important in v large prints. For evocative.... it matters not and I never worry about quality with the M no matter how big the print might be. I also like grain!

PS the front to back dimentions of the mamiya (lens cap to back door) with a 80mm is about double that of the Leica with a small 35mm. Thats not inconsiderable and ensures the mamiya is not a 'slip under your coat' camera.

Then you should see the monstrous Fuji GW670 that I've been shooting with. It's not heavy but good lord this thing is humongous for a rangefinder. (Much easier to handle than an RB/RZ though.

I'd love to try the Mamiya 7 someday as I love medium format, but 35mm is just so darn convenient. My 1N takes all my sweet Canon lenses.