Sick of buying lenses that need work

PentaxBronica · Nov 18, 2012

The main problems I hit with repairing lenses are:

The ball bearing which provides the aperture click - you need to watch this like a hawk or it will fall out, either bouncing onto the floor or sticking to something unlikely depending on whether it has any grease on it.

Cemented element groups where the fungus has got into the cement. Short of having the parts separated and re-glued (a really high-precision job for a professional) there's nothing that you can do.

hoffy · Nov 18, 2012

PentaxBronica said:
The main problems I hit with repairing lenses are:

The ball bearing which provides the aperture click - you need to watch this like a hawk or it will fall out, either bouncing onto the floor or sticking to something unlikely depending on whether it has any grease on it.

Cemented element groups where the fungus has got into the cement. Short of having the parts separated and re-glued (a really high-precision job for a professional) there's nothing that you can do.

OK, considering your username is PentaxBronica, have you attacked many Bronica lenses? I have one where the flash won't fire (150mm PS) - how hard would that one be?

tkamiya · Nov 18, 2012

Stephanie Brim said:
I have never regretted anything bought from KEH. It costs more, but it seems like they really do check. I tend to wait until I have multiple things I want, though, as buying one small thing ends up with ridiculous shipping.

I've been unlucky. I had anything from just plain not working to light leaks to packaging ending up in opposite side of the country. I had all kinds of issues but they were always good with exchanges and refunds. I just write it off the hassle factor as a "cost" of buying used equipment. KEH has been doing "free shipping" stuff lately. I group mine enough so that it's always $100 or more. Works for me very well.

Chris Nielsen · Nov 18, 2012

The last camera I bought off the local auctions, I had it just long enough to pick out a leatherette colour and the film door fell off, hinges had snapped. I know I sure didn't break them....

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 18, 2012

New Zealand is a very small market compared to, for example, Australia. If New Zealanders don't look after their cars, bikes and motorcycles, I imagine they aren't particularly endowed to their cameras and lenses. Do you buy solely from New Zealand, or is there a missing reference to surrounding Oceania e.g. Australia?

Chris Nielsen · Nov 18, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
New Zealand is a very small market compared to, for example, Australia. If New Zealanders don't look after their cars, bikes and motorcycles, I imagine they aren't particularly endowed to their cameras and lenses. Do you buy solely from New Zealand, or is there a missing reference to surrounding Oceania e.g. Australia?

You are right about us not looking after our cars.

I buy from Trademe.co.nz and only within NZ, I wouldn't even know how to buy from Aussie.

Chris Nielsen · Nov 18, 2012

desertratt said:
Ummmm. doing something over and over again and getting the same result while expecting something different to happen is one definition of ... insanity. Sounds to me you are a sucker waiting to be plucked. Get used to it. We all have different skills. I am a bummer at selling. I have been buying used lens and cameras from the Internet lately and I mostly get first-class stuff. If I see too much hype I don't buy and I bid low. It's hard work not gimme that one I want it.
This week I got a Minolta XG-M with the original box and paperwork plus a 45mm f2 Rokkor-X lens. Everything looks brand new and the box itself sells for more than I paid for the whole works.
I was hoping the lens was a Leica/Minolta one but it is a cheaper lens but the whole deal is worth maybe $100 more than I paid.
I recently I got a Yashicamat and you have to look it over really good to see that it is not brand new out of the box.
I really work at going over the listings in the auctions.

That all sounds good in theory but that is based on buying in the USA. Here in New Zealand the selection is far smaller on the local auction site and the prices far higher. It's sort of take what you can get a lot of the time. Currently there is a single OM4 for $500 so if you want one that is what you pay, another might not come up for 6 months.

Mark Crabtree · Nov 19, 2012

BrianShaw said:
p.s. except for sticky shutters, major fungus/scratches, and sticky aperture blades in a SLR lens, most of the other afflictions are fairly innocuous in their affect on images.

Minor nicks and scratches have a lot more impact on value than performance. But even minor haze really does cause problems. You might shoot quite a lot of pictures without it showing up at all, but get some contrasty light or a person against a bright wall, and then it shows up and makes a mess of things. Luckily that one is usually not a big deal to fix.

On the issue of oily mess with lens cleaners; ROR will certainly loosen up any oily residue. I use it when I need the extra help, but expect to have to do 3 to 5 applications to get the mess cleared up. That is on a lens that hasn't been cleaned with it before (even a new lens, in my experience). I don't know where the muck comes from, but it doesn't seem to come back to any great degree once thoroughly cleaned. I mostly use breath with microfiber cloths, and a lens pen. ROR if necessary.

The Seneca lens - don't take my word for being a RR, that is just an educated guess. I'd just hate for you to be disappointed if you are expecting something else. I've always meant to try RR's since they seem like neat lenses. I couldn't make out the short focal length, maybe 6 or 8". You should be able to focus either.

Chris Nielsen · Nov 19, 2012

Mark Crabtree said:
Minor nicks and scratches have a lot more impact on value than performance. But even minor haze really does cause problems. You might shoot quite a lot of pictures without it showing up at all, but get some contrasty light or a person against a bright wall, and then it shows up and makes a mess of things. Luckily that one is usually not a big deal to fix.

On the issue of oily mess with lens cleaners; ROR will certainly loosen up any oily residue. I use it when I need the extra help, but expect to have to do 3 to 5 applications to get the mess cleared up. That is on a lens that hasn't been cleaned with it before (even a new lens, in my experience). I don't know where the muck comes from, but it doesn't seem to come back to any great degree once thoroughly cleaned. I mostly use breath with microfiber cloths, and a lens pen. ROR if necessary.

The Seneca lens - don't take my word for being a RR, that is just an educated guess. I'd just hate for you to be disappointed if you are expecting something else. I've always meant to try RR's since they seem like neat lenses. I couldn't make out the short focal length, maybe 6 or 8". You should be able to focus either.

The haze became apparent in a backlit shot....

Pray tell, what is ROR?

Mark Crabtree · Nov 19, 2012

Chris Nielsen said:
The haze became apparent in a backlit shot....

Pray tell, what is ROR?

Yes, people will sometimes accuse you of being to fussy about haze, but I often notice it from seeing the evidence in prints, then go hunting for the cause.

ROR is a brand of lens cleaner. Stands for Residual Oil Remover. It does work, but initially often makes things worse until you persist and get all the mess off. They used to make outrageous claims about how improved lens performance, but I believe quit that many years ago. It is often unnecessary, but great when you do need it.

Chris Nielsen · Nov 19, 2012

Mark Crabtree said:
Yes, people will sometimes accuse you of being to fussy about haze, but I often notice it from seeing the evidence in prints, then go hunting for the cause.

ROR is a brand of lens cleaner. Stands for Residual Oil Remover. It does work, but initially often makes things worse until you persist and get all the mess off. They used to make outrageous claims about how improved lens performance, but I believe quit that many years ago. It is often unnecessary, but great when you do need it.

Thanks. Not buying from overseas as its probably classed as DG. See if I can get it locally

lxdude · Nov 19, 2012

Chris Nielsen said:
That all sounds good in theory but that is based on buying in the USA. Here in New Zealand the selection is far smaller on the local auction site and the prices far higher. It's sort of take what you can get a lot of the time. Currently there is a single OM4 for $500 so if you want one that is what you pay, another might not come up for 6 months.

Sounds you need to find some other folks and make up a bulk buy from KEH!

Chris Nielsen · Nov 19, 2012

lxdude said:
Sounds you need to find some other folks and make up a bulk buy from KEH!

I used to do that with orders from Adorama, might have to do that with KEH, great idea!

PentaxBronica · Nov 19, 2012

hoffy said:
OK, considering your username is PentaxBronica, have you attacked many Bronica lenses? I have one where the flash won't fire (150mm PS) - how hard would that one be?

Nope, never needed to take one apart yet. I have had a couple of blank frames recently though, really need to work out whether they were a lens or body problem. There seems little pattern to them - had one on the second frame of a film (the rest were fine) and the other on the penultimate frame (the rest were fine, even the final one). I suspect it's a case of gear that needs more exercise.

The Bronica lenses have the shutter mechanism built in, so I wouldn't fancy opening one up.

hoffy · Nov 19, 2012

PentaxBronica said:
Nope, never needed to take one apart yet. I have had a couple of blank frames recently though, really need to work out whether they were a lens or body problem. There seems little pattern to them - had one on the second frame of a film (the rest were fine) and the other on the penultimate frame (the rest were fine, even the final one). I suspect it's a case of gear that needs more exercise.

The Bronica lenses have the shutter mechanism built in, so I wouldn't fancy opening one up.

That's what i am thinking as well - I did give it a try (even with the right screwdrivers) and I met some resistance - they put some reasonably decent loctite on those screws!

lxdude · Nov 19, 2012

PentaxBronica said:
The Bronica lenses have the shutter mechanism built in, so I wouldn't fancy opening one up.

Not too bad, but I have my doubts that the shutters, electronically controlled except 1/500th, are easily serviceable; especially for something like flash sync. I suspect that the Seiko shutter mechanisms, with flat flexible cable and all, are probably made all of a piece, and are designed to be simply replaced. I don't know that conclusively, though.

Hoffy, the standard procedure of cleaning the contacts on the back of the lens is worth trying. They are gold plated, so use alcohol or similar on a swab or fine cloth, nothing abrasive. I doubt it's worth repair if repair is what it needs, but maybe. Contact Koh's Camera and see what they think.

EDIT: here's a nice tutorial on disassembly of a 150/3.5 S lens. A PS will be similar.

www.buonaluce.com/Slens.pdf

It shows which is the flash contact on the back of the lens. You could try to trace and look for a bad solder joint inside the lens; if the fault is in the shutter module itself that would be a delicate job if you were motivated to tackle it, but you might succeed. I would only do it for fun. If it came to that it makes more sense to buy another lens and sell for cheap the one you have, to someone who doesn't care about flash sync.

hoffy · Nov 19, 2012

lxdude said:
Not too bad, but I have my doubts that the shutters, electronically controlled except 1/500th, are easily serviceable; especially for something like flash sync. I suspect that the Seiko shutter mechanisms, with flat flexible cable and all, are probably made all of a piece, and are designed to be simply replaced. I don't know that conclusively, though.

Hoffy, the standard procedure of cleaning the contacts on the back of the lens is worth trying. They are gold plated, so use alcohol or similar on a swab or fine cloth, nothing abrasive. I doubt it's worth repair if repair is what it needs, but maybe. Contact Koh's Camera and see what they think.

EDIT: here's a nice tutorial on disassembly of a 150/3.5 S lens. A PS will be similar.

www.buonaluce.com/Slens.pdf

It shows which is the flash contact on the back of the lens. You could try to trace and look for a bad solder joint inside the lens; if the fault is in the shutter module itself that would be a delicate job if you were motivated to tackle it, but you might succeed. I would only do it for fun. If it came to that it makes more sense to buy another lens and sell for cheap the one you have, to someone who doesn't care about flash sync.

Yeah, I attacked the pins on the back of the lens with a polishing pad and a dremel - it made no difference.

Actually selling the lens for a bargain basement price is probably not a bad idea. I had thought of keeping it and getting another focal length for flash work (keep uming and erring between a 110 macro or the 180).

Cheers

lxdude · Nov 19, 2012

hoffy said:
Actually selling the lens for a bargain basement price is probably not a bad idea. I had thought of keeping it and getting another focal length for flash work (keep uming and erring between a 110 macro or the 180).

It's a nice portrait length of about 85mm in 135 format equivalent. The 180 is nice, in that it's still a good portrait length at 100mm equivalent, but also focuses closer, to 1 meter compared to 1.5 meters for the 150. The combination of longer focal length and closer focusing means you can get significantly tighter shots with it.
I see KEH has 150/4 PS lenses in EX condition for $115-$139. If you got say 50 bucks for the one you have now, you wouldn't be spending much at all to get a fully functional one, almost for sure less than cost of repair.

dehk · Nov 19, 2012

I can probably fix them for you. PM if needed.

destroya · Nov 23, 2012

I have a lens I've been looking at, on ebay and used via amazon. but this scares me for some reason. the lens is in good/great shape but the dreaded "there is dust inside the lens but it wont affect image quality."

thoughts on that comment? experiences?

ambaker · Nov 23, 2012

destroya said:
I have a lens I've been looking at, on ebay and used via amazon. but this scares me for some reason. the lens is in good/great shape but the dreaded "there is dust inside the lens but it wont affect image quality."

thoughts on that comment? experiences?

Zooms especially tend to collect dust inside. All the zooming in and out, is like a big piston sucking in air and dust. Small amounts should not be a problem. If there are piles of silt in there, well then... See post # 21 in this thread for how bad a lens can get, and still give a decent image.

I have a zoom that was dropped and the front lens is chipped. There is light dust inside. There is no way I would ever be able to get someone to buy it. The images look like they came out of a pristine lens.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

PentaxBronica · Nov 24, 2012

You can sometimes blast the dust out of a zoom too. I have a '90s 100-300mm which arrived with "slight dust" and after strategic blasting with a can of compressed air it's nearly perfect. Just stick the nozzle into the same hole the dust got in through and give a few short blasts, the dust has presumably either been blown back out or just moved to a less obvious part of the lens.

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 25, 2012

destroya said:
I have a lens I've been looking at, on ebay and used via amazon. but this scares me for some reason. the lens is in good/great shape but the dreaded "there is dust inside the lens but it wont affect image quality."

thoughts on that comment? experiences?

Iin the 1980s, I used mostly Tamron lenses and can clearly recall my irritation and very visible dust right through the lens. Later, Nikon lenses also showed prolific amounts of dust, and only one Canon lens had it to memory. Personally I will not, and never have, now buy a lens with any trace of dust inside it. All equipment is bought in excellent to mint, and condition verified with seller/dealer with detail photographs and then again in person. A large amount of dust close to the rear element will have an effect on imaging quality (softening, flare).

Sick of buying lenses that need work

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