Shutter sync issues on a Nikon FM. CLA?

fotch · Mar 25, 2010

I think the confusion is the word sync which usually means flash. The camera has no mirror lock up unfortunately.

One thought to further diagnose it would be to (with lens off camera) use B to have the camera lift the mirror up and stay while you hold it open. Then with either tape or a toothpick, keep it so it does not return when you release the shutter.

If it stays up, put lens on and take a photo.

Then go back to B and remove mirror prop or tape.

I am wondering if the mirror foam would be sticky enough to cause it to hesitate at faster speeds. Which, it the picture was ok in the new test, might be as simple as replacing the foam yourself.

If its the shutter, then you can anticipate the cost and decide what to do. Keep in mind any replacement might develop the same problem after you own it so fixing it might be an option to consider.

Anyway, good luck to you.

frobozz · Mar 25, 2010

I'm admittedly weird, but I'd much rather sink $120 more into a camera for a CLA and have it be functionally brand new when done, than buy a replacement camera for about that much and know nothing about it, no matter how well it works today. (My dirty little secret is that I do both! Buy more good used cameras, *and* CLA the ones I already have )

Duncan

LyleB · Mar 25, 2010

I was told the same thing about about the FE that needed some repair - just buy a "new" body , rather than paying for a CLA. I must say, I feel better about this camera now after the CLA, then I would have about another "new" one. They are old, they need some TLC. It operates like an actual new camera now.

Course, I drive 10+ year old vehicles too. I know their history and quirks.

luke_h · Mar 25, 2010

Lyle, I'm putting it in the queue. I've got a 90mm Schneider lens for 4x5 that needs a new shutter, a Rolleicord that needs the shutter fixed, a Retina IIc that needs a cocking rack and CLA, and now the FM

If I can ever -stop- myself from buying new gear, I can save up to have the holy pile sent off for repairs to all corners of the country.

I'm glad to hear you're happy with KEH's service. I may go to them since 120 dollars includes new light seals, and the CLA rather than JUST shutter work. This camera does indeed have rotten foam in it, but it's not sticking to the mirror. What's happening (to the best of my knowledge) is that the front or rear curtain (I'm going to say rear) is slow or flat out not opening all the way at high speed.

The man in Kansas told me he MIGHT be able to fix it by holding onto the curtain while throwing the shutter to pull down on it. But that was only a maybe. He said sometimes they get out of track with where they're supposed to park themselves. His other advice was to put a sticker on the back of the camera that said "Don't use this unless you can shoot slower than 1/125th" Ha!

fotch · Mar 25, 2010

I agree with frobozz (Duncan) and LyleB, the camera you know is better than the camera you don't know. I purchased many of my cameras/lens new and no how much or little they have been used. Don't know on anything I buy used.

In this case, if the body looks well taken care of, it probably is not worn out, just needs cleaning and fresh lube. Dings, dents, scratches, worn leather or brassing, may have a lot of life left, then maybe not. They most likely would need a clean and lube and may have worn out parts.

To each their own.

Good luck

Bob-D659 · Mar 25, 2010

I'm guessing the mirror is being released early, the shadow is way to indistinct to be from the edge of the metal shutter curtain on the Copal Square shutter. Those cameras had a motor drive available, and the extra wear could be the cause of the problem. See:
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfmseries/fm/part5.htm There is a pdf file of the timing of the mechanisms you can look at.

luke_h · Mar 25, 2010

And a reply from the ebay seller when I inquired about a (partial) refund after he described it as working perfectly:

Hi. I'm very sorry I got camera from estate sale in chicago and the saler tell me the camera working I paid for this camera for $110.00.

Awesomeness. More positive karma for me and negative for him.

I held the mirror up while releasing the shutter at 1/500th and 1/1000th. Same effect. It's definitely the rear shutter curtain which seems to not even open up all the way. So it'll probably end up at KEH.

For everyone that thinks the shadow would be sharp at the edge of the shutter, here is a photo from my Spotmatic shot at 1/1000th which has the same problem (which goes away after you fire the shutter about 5 times.) The Pentax has a horizontal shutter travel.

lxdude · Mar 25, 2010

luke_h said:
And a reply from the ebay seller when I inquired about a (partial) refund after he described it as working perfectly:

Awesomeness. More positive karma for me and negative for him.

I held the mirror up while releasing the shutter at 1/500th and 1/1000th. Same effect. It's definitely the rear shutter curtain which seems to not even open up all the way. So it'll probably end up at KEH.

For everyone that thinks the shadow would be sharp at the edge of the shutter, here is a photo from my Spotmatic shot at 1/1000th which has the same problem (which goes away after you fire the shutter about 5 times.) The Pentax has a horizontal shutter travel.

It would be sharp with electronic flash. I tended to also think it was the mirror. In natural light there's no real reason why it would be sharp, if the shutter is dragging or hanging up, unless it were stopping altogether.

Nice shot of the dog, BTW.

Chan Tran · Mar 25, 2010

Looking at the pictures you posted I think you have a slow (sticky) first curtain because the exposed part of the picture is on top. If the pictures were taken with flash and using too high shutter speed the exposed part would be on the bottom. I believe there are 2 gears on the bottom of the camera that allows you to increase the spring tension on the shutter curtain. One is for the first curtain and one is for the second curtain. However, excercise the camera a lot might just cure it.

John Koehrer · Mar 26, 2010

luke_h said:
I called another repair center in Kansas and the guy laughed and said it took him two days of labor to fix the last FM shutter he got into. He said one curtain is slow or fast in regards to the other, but you have to get all the way into the camera to service it. He told me to just go to KEH and buy one of their EX condition FMs and be done with it

I may see if KEH wants to take this one in on trade.

It's not your fault the seller bought & sold a defective camera, if it came through the auction site, I'd INSIST on returning it. It wasn't as described.
For all you know he was aware the camera was defective. Believe it or not there are some unscrupulous folks on the bay.

1) Don't send it to the guy in Kansas!

2)The shutter does have to be removed from the chassis to be adjusted but the good thing is, once adjusted they stay that way for a long time.
If the spring lost tension, it's not age or use that caused the fault you see, it's more likely been dropped or bumped & lost a tooth or two of tension. A little bit goes a long way.

3)It does look like the Nikon and your Pentax share some flaws but the Pentax is the easier to cure. If you refer to Chan Tran's post that's the cure for the Pentax, a simple travel time adjustment.

lxdude · Mar 26, 2010

Regarding your Pentax-Eric Hendrickson has a great reputation.
http://pentaxs.com

John_Nikon_F · Mar 28, 2010

Luke,

Camera Clinic in Shoreline, WA would also do a good job. For $138, you'd get a full overhaul of your FM. Or, they might sell you a pre-overhauled FM for the same amount of money.

-J

Shutter sync issues on a Nikon FM. CLA?

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