"Shutter lag" in RZ67 Pro II

[Heidar M]

I got a Mamiya RZ67 Pro II yesterday. It looks almost new and seems to work very well. I have just noticed a small issue that I wanted to ask about.

When I take a picture, I hear distinct sounds. The mirror flips up and then the shutter in the lens fires. These sounds are so near that it is almost one sound. However, after I leave the camera for a bit of time, the first shot often has a significant lag between the mirror flip and the shutter firing. Sometimes around 1/2 second or more. After that most shots seem okay, but once in a while there is a bit of lag (less than the first shot). So it's not super consistent.
I've noticed that whenever the back is off, I never see a lag, it's very consistent. The length of the shutter opening in the lens seems okay, it's just that it starts with a delay after the mirror flips up.

I have mostly been able to test this in Emergency Mode (orange) where it's mechanical and does not use the battery. I have a film in the back and only in emergency mode am I able to shoot without removing the dark slide (thus not waste film). If I remove the back, I can test in normal mode (white). But without back there is no lag, in normal or emergency mode.
When the film is done, I will be able to test normal mode with back, too.

So I am wondering, is this just a normal issue with the (mechanical) emergency mode or is this not normal?

Thanks for the help.

 

[John Koehrer]

I'd expect the lag to be very consistent. I have an RB so don't have first hand experience
with your camera.
Yours is exhibiting what might be seen from a sticking magnet, or a magnet with a dirty armature.

When you go to the mechanical mode It's likely bypassing the electronic release so doesn't demonstrate
the hesitation.

 

[wiltw]

The RZ67 is like Bronica in using Seiko electronic shutters, but the lenses have mechanical pins which affect the function of the lens. I once had a film back (purchased used) for my Bronica, and its film advance interlock pin pressed into the body a bit too far, and that prevented the reflex mirror from swinging upward fully, which then prevented the mechanical pins from actuating properly, which prevented the shutter from firing...SOMETIMES! I could imagine that a similar issue might simply delay the shutter from firing, rather than preventing shutter firing.

Perhaps your camera body is in need of CLA, with clean and lubrication of the mechanical stuff, perhaps it is the lens whose mechanical interlock needs to be cleaned and lubed, perhaps the issue lies with the film magazine and its interlock pin.
If you have a second lens, and also a second film magazine, you can try swapping one thing out at a time, to see if you can begin to isolate the cause of the delay.

I had to send a lens+body+film back to Bronica's repair shop to find the cause and get it fixed properly (they shortened the interlock in in the back).

 

[Heidar M]

Thanks for the suggestions. What I find strange is that it is only the first shot after not using it for some time, that had this lag. It seems to be present both in electronic and fully manual mode, but only when the back is on. So I feel it must be related to the back. I will be getting a new lens in a few days and can try to check if that makes a difference. I only have one back, but I can maybe try with a friends RB67 back to test this one too.
Oh just remembered, I have a Polaroid back. It might be worth trying with that one too.

Regarding sticking/dirty magnet, where is the magnet located exactly? Is it easy to access and check it myself? I think the camera has been stored unused for some time and was a bit dirty, so it might be it. But in general it looks very new and has no scratches.

 

[Heidar M]

Oh, it also does this without the film back (first shot only). So it is probably not back related, might be the lens. Will check that as soon as my new lens arrives.

 

[wiltw]

That the delay seems to happen after inactivity is a probable indication of excessive friction resulting from gummy lubrication.

 

[Heidar M]

That the delay seems to happen after inactivity is a probable indication of excessive friction resulting from gummy lubrication.

I fear that you are right, as it's the only thing that seems to explain it. If that is the problem, is it okay to ignore the issue for now (as after the first shot it works fine) or will this create permanent issues? I am spending too much money on getting equipment right now and would prefer to postpone any CLA if possible.

 

[Heidar M]

I've tried it with my new lens and it has the same lag. So it is definitely the body that has a problem, most likely needs some lubrication. I surely hope that it's not too expensive to get one.

 

[EdSawyer]

did you try swapping the battery? Just a thought, always a good idea to check that too. Also I'd try with and without lens to see if that affects things.

If you need RZ67 service manuals / parts diagrams, I have them posted here: http://www.edsawyer.com/lenstests/

 

[wiltw]

did you try swapping the battery? Just a thought, always a good idea to check that too. Also I'd try with and without lens to see if that affects things.

If you need RZ67 service manuals / parts diagrams, I have them posted here: http://www.edsawyer.com/lenstests/

But the battery only TIMES the shutter opening/closing AFTER the mechanical linkages in the body actuate the swinging levers in the lens to trigger shutter actuation.

 

[Heidar M]

Thanks for all the help guys. I've done a bit more testing (it's takes time to test, as the problem appears only if you leave the camera for some time and it happens only once).

I can conclude that it has nothing to do with the lenses or the back, it's the body. And the lag is not really between the mirror going up and the shutter firing. It's between the mirror going up and the black thing behind the mirror, going up. The problem exists even without a lens attached (thus no shutter). The best guess is that it's related to lubrication or dirt inside the body.

did you try swapping the battery? Just a thought, always a good idea to check that too. Also I'd try with and without lens to see if that affects things.

If you need RZ67 service manuals / parts diagrams, I have them posted here: http://www.edsawyer.com/lenstests/

It's not related to the battery either as the battery is new and the problem exists in the mechanical mode too. Thanks for the link, it could be very useful!