shutter CLA needed Kodak Flash Supermatic

jstout · Feb 15, 2012

Received a Busch Pressman C with Kodak Ektar 101mm f4.5 lens mounted on a Kodak Flash Supermatic shutter needing a CLA. The shutter works very well in most regards, but the blades are oily, and the shutter usually doesn't close tight, leaving a tiny opening. But, the camera is in fine, servicable shape, has ground glass back and 120x8 rollfilm back, and I'm anxious to use it. What a fine camera! It has the Kalart rangefinder on the side, and a Busch viewfinder on top (with parallax lever). Best to send this out for repair. Would like recommendations on repair person or place.

I'm new to large format. This is my first camera with movements, and using 120 film makes it highly affordable. Should I tackle this myself, or is it economically feasible to send for repair? Thanks in advance for guidance and advice.

Ian Grant · Feb 15, 2012

First I'd unscrew and remove the lens cells and then flush the shutter with Iso propyl alcohol, some use lighter fuid, this removes the oil and usually the shutter then functions as it should.

US CLA's are cheaper than the UK where the minimum charge is typically £50 ($80) but the repairers seem to be doing more as shutters are always returned accurate (I know my repairer strips a shutter and aperture diapram completely and rebuild where as some (even well known) US repairers just seem to clean and give a list of actual speeds against the indicated speed.

A quick clean with IPA was all that was need to revive the Supermatic on my 101mm Ektar though.

A tip with the small Busch Pressman, a £1.49 ($2.50) Helix reading fresnel (available Staples in the UK so I'd guess also in US as well) is a useful addition on the outside of the focus screen. It's full width but the actaual lens part isn't quite full height but even so it greatly improves the brightness and easy of use of the focus screen.

Ian

fotch · Feb 15, 2012

Nice camera. I had one just like it a long time ago.

Neanderman · Feb 15, 2012

VM&P (varnish makers & painters) Naptha is also a very good degreaser. You can get it at your local hardware or paint store.

Ed

jstout · Feb 15, 2012

will try

Thanks very much for the advice and also for the compliment on the camera. The suggestion for using a fresnel is also very much appreciated. I will try it. I even have a couple of the "reading" fresnels here somewhere, perhaps need to get a different size for this purpose.

The shutter speeds sound and look pretty normal, although I don't have a speed tester, something I have thought of building, as I have circuit building skills and good shop tools. I think I will try flushing the shutter clean, just not sure about the requirement for lubrication afterwards. It seems light machine oil applied with extreme discretion is the way to go, once parts are completely dry. Lithium grease?

The camera was given to me by a good friend, whose brother last used it in 1957. In the camera case, there is a boxed, sealed roll of Kodak Tri-X "Safety film", "super speed panchromatic", dated "Use Before Nov 1956", and a price of $7.25 written in pencil on the box. (I don't plan on opening or using it). Also, a box of sheet film, Kodak "Super-XX Panchromatic" (Jan. 1957) 25 sheets 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, which seems mostly full, and when I slid open the dark slide on one of the 10 sheet film holders, there was film in it. Oooops!

This is a true "time capsule", and it will be an honor to put it back into service.
Jeff

Neanderman · Feb 15, 2012

I'd try it first without oil. It shouldn't need it.

If you later decide that it needs some, get some clock oil. You only want to put oil where the shafts pivot -- the gears and springs should be dry. The amount is miniscule -- take a straight pin, dip it in a drop, shake the excess off the pin then tough the pin point to the end of the shafts.

Ed

jstout · Feb 15, 2012

naptha

Is Coleman camping fuel simply naptha, and good/safe to use for this purpose? I think it's just pure naptha.

jstout · Feb 15, 2012

pin

Neanderman,
I understand. Will follow your advice. Many thanks.
Jeff

snederhiser · Feb 15, 2012

Hello;
Two ways to go here, send it in and have a CLA done, or do it yourself. I would recommed the first option before you start digging in and possibly adding to the repair bill. Or get a shutter repair manual and do this yourself. Use brake cleaner to flush this out, lighter fluid takes a while to evaporate. A good watch oil and some super lube is needed for the clockwork pivots, sliding contact and what ever needs lubrication. The shutter runs dry, so no lube there. Good luck, Steven.

mgb74 · Feb 15, 2012

Probably not much harm in flushing with lighter fluid enough to get oil off the blades. But for a CLA:

Paul Ebel
651-335-8759
paulebel44@yahoo.com

jstout · Feb 15, 2012

send

Steven,
When you say, send it in for a CLA, do you have a place in mind, or a person you have experience with?

This repair seems pretty straightforward, although I have considered having it done for me. Maybe this is not a highly specialized thing, I don't know. Or, perhaps there are people who routinely work on large format lens/shutters assemblies. I did a partial overhaul on an Olympus 50mm f1.8 lens, for example, to clean the lenses of fungus and lube the helicoil, etc., and this is quite a bit simpler in comparison. The big tradeoff is, do I have the pride and satisfaction of maintaining my own equipment, or the knowledge that my equipment has been maintained by a professional craftsman.

All the guidance I have gotten here is all appreciated and will be taken to heart. I value my equipment, and will do what's right. I am really looking forward to using this awesome camera.
Jeff

jstout · Feb 15, 2012

place to go

mgb74,
Thanks for the Paul Ebel reference. Will check it out.
Jeff

snederhiser · Feb 16, 2012

Hello Jeff;
This is your call here, just have the correct information, tools, and supplies before starting. The supermatic is a simple shutter to work on. Two clockwork mechanisms involved here, one for the shutter and the other for the flash sync. The coil spring on the sync clockwork needs to be wound two revolutions. I do my own service work on everything from 35mm to large format. I find that having the correct service manual sure helps and worth every penny, Steven.

jp80874 · Feb 16, 2012

A second vote for Paul Ebel. Here is his address. PO Box 141 Menomonie, WI 54751

Send him an email or call to discuss what is wrong. He has done several shutters for me over the years. Good service, good work, reasonable time and price. I wish he fixed other things in my life.

John Powers

michaelbsc · Feb 16, 2012

Third for Paul. Done several for me over the past several years.

moto-uno · Feb 16, 2012

Hi
If you're near the west coast I'd suggest Mark Hansen for your repairs.I truly buggered up a 150mm Ektar shutter mechanism and he returned it working flawlessly and hastily,can't recommend him highly enough.
Regards,Peter

Larry L · Feb 16, 2012

Could someone send me email contact information on Paul Ebel in Wisconsin. I have a copal #1 shutter that gradually lost it's ability to stay open on either B or T. The speeds all seem fine - think something has come loose.

Thanks,

Larry L.
Iowa City, IA

mgb74 · Feb 16, 2012

Paul Ebel
651-335-8759
paulebel44@yahoo.com

Larry L said:
Could someone send me email contact information on Paul Ebel in Wisconsin. I have a copal #1 shutter that gradually lost it's ability to stay open on either B or T. The speeds all seem fine - think something has come loose.

Thanks,

Larry L.
Iowa City, IA

mike c · Feb 16, 2012

moto-uno said:
Hi
If you're near the west coast I'd suggest Mark Hansen for your repairs.I truly buggered up a 150mm Ektar shutter mechanism and he returned it working flawlessly and hastily,can't recommend him highly enough.
Regards,Peter

Peter would you have contact info for Mark Hansen.

Mike

jstout · Feb 19, 2012

rear element removal

How to remove the rear element? The front is out, as shown in the picture, but it isn't clear how to remove the rear element. Would appreciate guidance.

Once the rear glass is out, I will try flushing the shutter leaves to clean off the gunky oil. Thanks in advance for any help and assistance.
Jeff

mopar_guy · Feb 19, 2012

"Shutter runs dry" --Wrong
"Oil" --Wrong

According to the Kodak Service manual there are several surfaces that take a light grease. In my opinion, it is best to disassemble the shutter, clean all the parts and re-assemble with grease at the correct points. The Naptha flush is not a recommended service practice from the service manual.

jstout · Feb 19, 2012

springs and things

I believe I'm leaning heavily toward contacting Paul Ebel.
Jeff

Jon Shiu · Feb 19, 2012

jstout said:
How to remove the rear element? The front is out, as shown in the picture, but it isn't clear how to remove the rear element. Would appreciate guidance.

Once the rear glass is out, I will try flushing the shutter leaves to clean off the gunky oil. Thanks in advance for any help and assistance.
Jeff

Have you tried one of those rubber jar openers?

Jon

mgb74 · Feb 19, 2012

How many lenses do you plan to do a CLA on? If a number of them, this is probably as good a lens as any to learn on. But if you don't plan to do this much, then send it out and have it done right.

jstout said:
I believe I'm leaning heavily toward contacting Paul Ebel.
Jeff

jstout · Feb 19, 2012

rubber gripper

Yes, I have thought of that. It appears I would need to lay the rubber over the assembly, and use a round object to apply pressure the the center circle, which I believe to be the part that will screw out. I could use a socket of the appropriate size, for example, to apply precise downward pressure on the rubber. (a basic mechanics bolts and nuts socket, which is just the right size and shape). Just not sure if that's the part that screws out. It sure looks like it.

The glass needs cleaning. Oil residue on the inside. The glass is in great shape, as shown by this photo of the front assembly, and this lens (and shutter) appear worth my efforts. Even if I succeed in cleaning the glass, I am not averse to seeking professional help from Paul Ebel on the shutter. "A man's got to know his limitations!"
Jeff

shutter CLA needed Kodak Flash Supermatic

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