Show me some meterless Nikon F Love

ColColt · Apr 25, 2016

What's the difference in the new vs old F-1...ergonomics mostly?

flavio81 · Apr 25, 2016

ColColt said:
What's the difference in the new vs old F-1...ergonomics mostly?

There are three F-1 models:

"Old" (1971) Canon F-1, a 100% mechanical SLR
Canon F-1 "revised" model or "second version" or "Canon F-1n" (lower case "n"), 1976, which is equal to the previous camera but with minor improvements. Totally manual, allows shutter priority EE with an accesory.

"New F-1" or "Canon F-1N" (upper case "N"), a totally new, different camera, 1981, with an hybrid mechanical-electronical shutter that could work without batteries and improvements in everything. It has automatic (Aperture-priority) mode built-in, and it can also do shutter-priority EE with an accesory. So it is a "multi-mode" camera. Also, it allows different metering patterns - true spot, partial, and centerweighted, by selecting the appropriate focusing screen.

Old F-1 at the front, New F-1 at the back.

From the top they look much more different.

blockend · Apr 25, 2016

cooltouch said:
I understand where you're coming from, but I just can't buy into this. Many of the points you mention are confined to relatively recent camera technology -- say the Nikon F4 or EOS 1 and beyond for pro use. But the earlier pro-level cameras did not have all this complexity. They had durability and ruggedness, very accurate meters, and the flexibility you get with system cameras. And in this respect, when you compare earlier models with each other there are real differences that matter. For example, to me, the Nikon F2 is objectively better than the Nikon F in a number of important ways. Ways that matter to me, at least. Does that make it a subjective difference? Well, perhaps, but I don't think so. To me, the F2 is more ergonomic than the F. It just feels better in my hands. Some of the improvements that were mentioned above: It has a higher top shutter speed. Three of the F2's metered finders will meter down to 10 seconds. The F2 has the capability of shooting at shutter speeds in between those that are engraved on the dial. Film loading was much improved. It's motor drives are vastly superior to the F's. I could go on . . .

Most of the changes were to make things faster. Auto advance, Matrix metering, quicker drives, lens communication, etc.
The F2 has rounded corners, which probably feels better but looks slightly worse, but that's just my response, the plain prism F2 is still a pretty camera. Leica users never complained about a removable base, although I'm sure a more efficient door could have been devised, it became part of the Leica tradition.

From a current perspective "better" is more about which lenses you own. If you have a mix of old glass and AF Nikkors, and want to use both correctly, the F4 is the Nikon to have. If it's pre-AI lenses I'd opt for a Nikkormat FT because the F metered finder is huge, but again that's a personal decision. The F3 is a great camera with AIS lenses, and so on. All Nikon Fs were well built cameras, but not every iteration is better for each individual, for example if you shoot in manual I'd argue analogue dials are more instinctive than thumb wheels and LCDs.

Nikon F buyers were a conservative bunch, which is why most models were manufactured well into the following type. You can say some cameras are better if speed is everything - like a photojournalist scrum - but digital stole that pie long ago. If you just want a well built camera and aren't a photojournalist, all the Fs qualify.

ColColt · Apr 25, 2016

I knew there were two versions but not three. The Old ('71) F-1 from what I recall was actually bigger than the Nikon F/F2.

blockend · Apr 25, 2016

flavio81 said:
In which sense "it is a beast"?

The Canon is bigger, which compared to the Nikon F2 of the same era is saying something. Of course no one knew what AF monstrosities were waiting round the corner, and pro DSLRs have taken gigantism to a new level. Most of the growth in film cameras was battery power, something mechanical cameras don't require.

Theo Sulphate · Apr 25, 2016

Huss said:
And the Minolta SR1s is prettier still..

The Minolta looks like some kind of Art Deco masterpiece)

Seen from the top and back, you can really see more of its beautiful lines:

Dead Link Removed

https://www.cameraquest.com/minsr2.htm

I think I just talked myself into an SR-2 :-O

cooltouch · Apr 26, 2016

flavio81 said:
I own a mint Canon F-1 and a Nikon F2A and after pondering this question for almost a year, i must say the Nikon F2A is the better camera. But only because i find the Nikon viewfinder brighter and better, and the fact that i can see the aperture and the shutter speed. And the ergonomics are a bit better.

But on the other hand if comparing the Canon New F-1 versus the Nikon F3, i prefer the Canon by a mile. I sold my F3 without regrets. The Canon "New F-1" (or F-1N) is the best 35mm SLR i've used, it comes close to perfection. I own two of them.

I used to own an F2A -- sold it during times of too much gear and not enough money, while I kept another F2 that didn't look as pretty and had the plain non-metered prism. Still own that F2. Anyway, it's been too many years ago, so I don't remember the specifics of the F2A finder anymore. But if it's anything like the Photomic finder (DP-1), I prefer even the old F-1's finder to it. I've always preferred match needle metering. It gives me more information regarding exposure than a single needle as found in the Photomic finder. Or a single row of LEDs, which I'm guessing is what the F2A's readout uses.

I've shot with the old F-1 for more than 30 years, whereas the New F-1 is actually a recent addition to my Canon FD collection. I bought it a couple of years ago, just to have one. And I must admit that it has been growing on me. The information readout in the viewfinder is much easier to read than it is in the F3 and the finder is also much brighter than the F3's. Shortly after I bought the camera I bought the AE Motor Drive FN. Wow, is this ever an improvement over the old F-1's Motor Drive MF! It's comparable to the Nikon F2's MD-2/MB-1, which is one of Nikon's best. I like the F3 for what it is, but if I had to choose between the two, it would be the New F-1, absolutely.

flavio81 · Apr 26, 2016

blockend said:
The Canon is bigger, which compared to the Nikon F2 of the same era is saying something. Of course no one knew what AF monstrosities were waiting round the corner, and pro DSLRs have taken gigantism to a new level. Most of the growth in film cameras was battery power, something mechanical cameras don't require.

I own both and the old F-1 does not feel or look any bigger than the F2...

Huss · Apr 26, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Seen from the top and back, you can really see more of its beautiful lines:

Dead Link Removed

https://www.cameraquest.com/minsr2.htm

I think I just talked myself into an SR-2 :-O

I use the F, F2, F6,FM2, FE2, XK, Nikkormat Ft2 and nothing compares to the elegance of the SR1s/SR2.

ColColt · Apr 26, 2016

I just saw a picture somewhere, wish I had saved it, last week with the old F-1 and the F2 and the Canon was definitely bigger. At least it appeared that way from the photo.

Theo Sulphate · Apr 26, 2016

ColColt said:
I just saw a picture somewhere, wish I had saved it, last week with the old F-1 and the F2 and the Canon was definitely bigger. At least it appeared that way from the photo.

To see those comparison photos, we must darken the room, light candles, and summon the Spirit of Les Sarile.

ColColt · Apr 26, 2016

I'll see if I can hire a Medium.

Theo Sulphate · Apr 28, 2016

ColColt said:
I'll see if I can hire a Medium.

Here you are, see posts #12 and #13.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

CMoore · Apr 29, 2016

So.....how can a buyer tell if he is looking at a New F-1 and not F-1n.?
If I am on Ebay for example, how can I be sure the seller knows his camera is actually a New F-1.?
Thank You

ronnies · Apr 29, 2016

CMoore said:
So.....how can a buyer tell if he is looking at a New F-1 and not F-1n.?
If I am on Ebay for example, how can I be sure the seller knows his camera is actually a New F-1.?
Thank You

The New F-1 is a completely different camera. Main visual giveaway would be the lack of mechanical self timer lever on the front of the New F-1.

An F-1n looks much like the original F-1.

Ronnie

John_Nikon_F · Apr 29, 2016

Since we've drifted a bit toward non-Nikon bodies...

Then there's this...

Looks nicer than either the F-1 or one of the SR-1/2 Minoltas. Especially when the accessory shoe is removed.

-J

kivis · Apr 29, 2016

kivis said:
Oh yes, please recommend a wide angle lens for me as I have never really owned one. 24mm or 28mm?

Just got a Nikon 28/2 Ai. Peachy.

CMoore · Apr 29, 2016

ronnies said:
The New F-1 is a completely different camera. Main visual giveaway would be the lack of mechanical self timer lever on the front of the New F-1.

An F-1n looks much like the original F-1.

Ronnie

Thanks For The Info.
So just 2x checking.....the F-1 and F-1n both have the timer lever on the front of the body, and any F-1 that does not have that lever is a New F-1.?
Thanks

cooltouch · Apr 29, 2016

Yeah, that's probably the easiest way to tell the difference. But there are many other differences. The old F-1 (both versions) doesn't have a flash shoe atop the pentaprism finder. Its pentaprism tends to sit more squat atop the body, whereas both New F-1 finders sit much higher. The New F-1 has two levels to its top deck on the right side. The shutter release and shutter speed dial are located on the raised portion. The New F-1 has a grip for the right hand. The old F-1's body paint is a gloss black enamel, the New F-1's is more of a dull, parkerized finish. And that "self timer" on the old F-1, which is completely missing on the New F-1, is actually a 4-function switch assembly. It incorporates momentary depth of field check, lens stop down, mirror lock-up, and the self timer. This switch was common to the FTb and EF as well. About the only thing the two versions of the F-1 share is the eyepiece ring.

ColColt · Apr 29, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Here you are, see posts #12 and #13.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Told you I saw it somewhere.

ronnies · Apr 29, 2016

cooltouch said:
And that "self timer" on the old F-1, which is completely missing on the New F-1, is actually a 4-function switch assembly. It incorporates momentary depth of field check, lens stop down, mirror lock-up, and the self timer. This switch was common to the FTb and EF as well.

I think that lever on my FTb was the best combined DoF and mirror lock up switch I've ever used.

Ronnie

John_Nikon_F · Apr 29, 2016

The F-1n was like an "Apollo" F. Updated cosmetics on the advance lever (and I think the multi-function switch assembly lever on the front), plus some other minor changes. Just like the FTbn, compared to the older FTb.

-J

Huss · Apr 30, 2016

John_Nikon_F said:
Since we've drifted a bit toward non-Nikon bodies...

Then there's this...

Looks nicer than either the F-1 or one of the SR-1/2 Minoltas. Especially when the accessory shoe is removed.

-J

How dare you Sir! That looks like a Minolta SR-1 that had a bad reaction to a bee sting...

(It's a very nice looking camera)

Theo Sulphate · Apr 30, 2016

More Nikon F love...

John_Nikon_F · May 1, 2016

Huss said:
How dare you Sir! That looks like a Minolta SR-1 that had a bad reaction to a bee sting...

(It's a very nice looking camera)

lol, yeah, one negative of cropping too closely. Camera winds up looking gigantic on peoples' monitors.

Thanks! Plan to get another to replace it sometime soon. Probably a black Spotmatic II this time around.

-J

Show me some meterless Nikon F Love

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