Should I trash the Bronica and buy a Hassy? Sharpness issues abound. Help!

r-brian said:

...Thoughts that come to my mind is whether your focusing screen is out of sync. What you see as in focus on the screen may not be what is getting to the film. Is the screen the original or replacement? Is it seated properly? Did the mirror get knocked out of alignment?...

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(above bold-type added by myself)

I don't own a Bronica, but it is one of the brands I have researched fairly extensively when deciding on a mainstay MF system, and I am surprised no one has suggested this earlier - and when Brian did, no one seemed to take notice. From what I understand, the focus screen alignment has been the bain of the existance of many a Borni owner, making a bad name for an otherwise excellent system, with excellent glass available.
This apparently is NOT limited to repaired cameras and replaced screens - from what I gathered in my research, it has been known occur with brand new cameras. From what I understand it is simple problemto remedy, but due to the precision involved, best left to someone who has camera-repair experience tomake sure its right once and for all.
As someone who has shot a lot of HP5+ and TriX, I assure you the film is not the weak link, and Rodinal certainly is not the culprit. And given the way you descirbe your work-process and thorough apporach (and years of learning and practice), I certainly doubt its you. I hope you find a solution, its sad to see something like this taking the wind out of the sails of someone so enthusiastic! Best of luck,

Peter.

PS Of course, if you really want a Hassy... well, you will have a Hassy - as has been already pointed out, logic has little to do with it, they are pretty magical things!

I had serious focusing problems with my Pentacon six TL bodies which all started following replacing the original screens with the Exakta 66 screens. Never been able to align them properly. Since 6 m moved to Bronica EC with no problems of sharpness anymore. My lesson: don't touch those screens if they are properly aligned.

I shoot a Hassy but I know for a fact that Bronica lenses can be razor sharp. Is it possible that your back is out of alignment or damaged? Or do you have a problem with your eyes, when was your last eye exam. I know a dental tech who had glasses made to help him in focusing close up. Try shooting with a identical camera (rent or borrow) and print on another enlarger and see if you have the same problems. This might help eliminate some possible causes.

When you are processing the Tri-X in Rodinal you might try modifying your technique to semi stand. Excessive agitation makes the neg look mushy compared to one with acutance effects from stand developing. There are quite a few threads to search for on that subject.

iserious said:

One problem has persisted throughout. Despite my efforts, I just can't seem to get a print (or negative) that is simply "tack sharp". A portrait printed to 8x10 from a 6x6 negative where you can literally make out each and every eyelash.

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Have you tried shooting a building at f/11? Is that sharp? Can you make out every detail?

You say you take pictures at 1/125 s to 1/250 s. Given the mirror slap of the SLR, I wouldn't vouch for the maximum sharpness of such images. I wouldn't even vouch for that if the mirror slap was not there when they are hand-held. If your images are sharper from a good tripod with the mirror pre-released, then you know where your problem is.

Daniel

I think it might have helped us all if you would post a shot showing the type of problem you are asking about, but here are some thoughts anyway. Definitely recommend the Barry Thornton book as a great read, not just as a technique book, and it will reinforce things you already know but maybe don't always do (like use a tripod!).

You don't say whether you are focussing with a waistlevel finder or a prism finder, but that could be an issue. If it is a prism, does it have dioptre adjustment and is it set correctly? Do you wear glasses or contact lenses? And have you tried running a sharp transparency film (commercially processed) through the camera to remove any mono processing/enlarger variables?

Donald Miller said:

Gary,

Sorry we must have been typing at the same time..you beat me to the draw this time...drat!!!!

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and I'll do it the next time too

Just musing here...

Try taking one of those classic shots one uses when checking whether a rangefinder is accurate - a picket fence or other detailed object which starts close to the camera and extends off into the distance.

Shoot in directional, but not harsh light.

Focus carefully on one spot (picket?) with an appropriate marker.

Use a tripod and cable release. Use MLU if available.

Use a range of apertures.

If possible, do the test with more than one lens.

When the negatives are developed, check to see if the point in the scene you focussed on corresponds with the sharpest point in the image on the negative. If not, your problem may originate with your eyesight, your focusing technique, the focus screen, the mirror, the back, or the film path.

If the point in the scene you focussed on corresponds with the sharpest point in the image in the negative, but that sharpest point is still not very sharp, check to see if the effect is different, depending on the lens you used. If so, then it may be a problem with either the lenses, or with camera movement. It could also, conceivably, be a film flatness issue.

Can you try your lenses, on another body, and compare?

Can you have someone else print a negative you have printed, and compare the resulting prints?

Are you using filters, and could they be damaged?

A scan of a problem negative might help those here determine the nature of the problem - spherical distortion, chromatic abberation, camera movement, etc.

Good luck, and hope this helps.

Matt

I've had a Bronica SQ am for some time and just recently used it a lot and I can tell you my negatives are very sharp. I am however very impressed with the number of people who want to help you. Hope you find the answers.

As others have said, there are many possibilities other than the lenses not being sharp enough. Just flipping through this as a problem solving exercise...

The lenses are probably not the problem. If you only had one lens then it would be easier to suspect a bad lens, but two bad Bronica lenses seems unlikely.

The camera...there are a few possibilities here. If you're having mirror slap problems, then screwing the camera down to a heavy tripod, using a cable release, and using mirror lock-up (if it's available on your camera), will improve image sharpness. (Note: screwing the tripod down to a tripod that's not heavy enough will actually degrade image sharpness.)

There are also a couple of possibilities that won't be helped by using the tripod test above: If your ground glass is not in the right place, or if your film isn't being held flat, then your focus could be off slightly. The "picket fence" test will help you determine if what you think is in focus really is in focus. (When I've done tests like this, I always put somthing next to the picket that I'm focusing on so that I'm absolutely sure which one I should be checking...it's much safer than counting pickets and you don't have to remember anything.)

The other easy place to look for an answer is in the darkroom. Borrow a negative from another photographer that he or she knows is sharp, and print it. See if you get a sharp print. If not, then your problem's somewhere in your enlarging process. Perhaps your grain focuser is mis-aligned. Or your enlarger isn't properly aligned. Or your enlarging lens is a dog (it does happen).

If you can't borrow another photographer's negative, you might be able to rent a camera for a day. Depending on the state of camera stores in your area, you should be able to find someone who will rent you what you need for your testing...shoot a bunch of film and see if it's significantly sharper than your Bronica negatives. If it is, then chances are there's something wrong with your Bronica. Bronica gear is definately capable of making sharp images.

The advice about Barry Thornton's "Edge of Darkness" is definately great advice...it's the book on image sharpness.

Best of luck to you.
Dave

Others already pointed to the enlarger...which was my question. You haven't clearly stated that the negs have been examined under a loupe and found wanting, though you have indicated that the negs are the problem in your imagination.

If it isn't the neg, and your enlarger is in alignment, the one additional thing that comes to mind is the safelight filter on the enlarger. My enlarger is a Beseler 23CII. It has a red filter above the lens but below the negative. I learned soon after getting the enlarger that the safelight filter doesn't actually have a neutral light path. If I focus through the safelight filter, the image is out of focus in the print. The more I stop down, the less the effect, but it softens the image. My solution was to fix an unexposed piece of paper and I use it to focus on, then replace it with the image paper under the safelight...while the image is noticeably blurry...

Not sure it's relevant, but just one more thing to think about in case it is...

I am a Hassy shooter and one of the problems I have run into is the "body focus" being out of alignment. What is body focus you ask? Hasselblad bodies are essentialy a box within a box. You can think of it as the "outer box" which houses the lens mount and mirror assembly and an inner box (containing the film stage). Sometimes the inner box can go out of alignment causing the film plane to be out of whack with the mirror and screen. I don't know if Bronica bodies are constructed in a similar (box within a box) fashion but if so, that may be the culpret. Fairly easy fix on the hassy, not sure about the Bronica.

Cheers,
Mark

Lest I leave the wrong impression based on my enlarger/safelight comment...

You state that your negs are unsharp. You haven't stated (or if so, I've missed it) what your in-camera process is. My primary assumption would be mirror slap/shake if you are shooting with available light. Strobes take care of that for you because the light is a pulse less than 1/1000 sec long, so they are like shooting at that shutter speed (or faster, some up to 1/20,000 or more). Available light and moderate shutter speeds in medium format SLRs can mean big mirror slap. If your negs are truly unsharp, look for process improvements like this or check out the alignment issues suggested by mgphoto. But if it is alignment, something should be in focus, just not what you thought you were focusing on. If it is mirror shake, the sharpest thing will still not be quite clear.

If your negs are sharp when looked at under a loupe, work your way through your printing process step by step to identify the issue.

As has been pointed out, both the Hasselblad and Bronica lenses are of exceptional quality but one thing that hasn't been said is that the Hasselblad is not easy to focus while the Bronica focusing is smooth a silk. I know a number of photographers who have actually sold their Hasselblads for that reason so before you make the switch I would suggest that you either borrow or rent a Hasselblad and see if you like the way it operates.

If you want super sharp negatives use a tripod but if you must hand-hold the camera the shutter speed should be a least TWICE the focal length of the lens not merely equal as you mentioned in your post.

Your Bronica's mirror can be locked up before making the exposure if you want to see if it is causing problems. Make certain your enlarger is aligned properly, rock steady, and use a grain-focuser when printing.

Printing and shooting near streets with heavy truck and bus traffic can cause sharpness problems also.

Last but not least- Have regular vision examations. Be careful with certain medications and/or alcohol as these drugs can make fine focusing very difficult.

If you systematically test each solution suggested by everyone in this thread your problem with negative/print sharpness will be a thing of the past.

Changeling1 said:

(snip)
Last but not least- Have regular vision examations. Be careful with certain medications and/or alcohol as these drugs can make fine focusing very difficult.
(snip)

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This has been an interesting thread... but this is the best advise I've read in quite some time! HOW TRUE! I'm living proof of how focussing can get better with the proper corrective vision presecription.

In addition to medication/alcohol, beware sipping too much coffee/tea or other caffinated beverages while shooting!

I've owned both - I had a Hasselblad 500, and now I have a Bronica ETRS, and to my surprise the Bronica lenses are as sharp as Hasselblad (and so much cheaper!)... I'm glad there are so many people willing to help out... hope you find the source of the problem soon!

Hi,

I am only half way through reading the replies so excuse me if this has already been suggested, but have you trid shooting slide film in your camera? It is a quick and easy way to see if your camera is focussing properly and delivering sharp results. If all is fine with slide film then the issue will lie with your darkroom process.

antielectrons said:

Hi,

I am only half way through reading the replies so excuse me if this has already been suggested, but have you trid shooting slide film in your camera? It is a quick and easy way to see if your camera is focussing properly and delivering sharp results. If all is fine with slide film then the issue will lie with your darkroom process.

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He's right. I knew this simple thing sometime long ago.

Not the only possible cause, but focussing may be an issue.
It has been my experience with studio strobe shots with a 150mm lens on a Mamiya 645 that at f11 the slightest casualness in focussing results in eyelashes not being tack sharp and I now use 400 ISO film, f16 and an acutance developer and focus as carefully as possible.
IIRC I read that a top photographer for Vogue magazine used f16.

I find it interesting that as soon as the original poster was asked for results of his own to demonstrate the problem, he has not posted another word in this thread. I would be interested to hear if, after all this sage advice has been offered, any of it has borne fruit.

TheFlyingCamera said:

I find it interesting that as soon as the original poster was asked for results of his own to demonstrate the problem, he has not posted another word in this thread. I would be interested to hear if, after all this sage advice has been offered, any of it has borne fruit.

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Interesting indeed. Also worthy of mention is that the poster, in a previous thread, admitted that he was having problems with his eyesight and focussing and was considering moving to 35mm because of it....