Should I Stop Posting Images?

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gerryyaum

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I had a complaint from a APUG member about the ladyboy images. This person was very offended by the photographs and asked me when I would stop posting them.

I want to get feedback on my work but I also do not want to disrupt the site or turn people off from coming to APUG. I was going to contact the site management to get their opinion but was unsure how to do that, so decided to post the question here.

Should I stop posting the images? Am I offending people on the site? I can stop posting the photographs if the site membership is offended. I could just use APUG as a wonderful resource of information and not post any of my photographs.

Thanks Gerry
 

Vonder

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Unless asked to stop by management, sure, keep posting. Sometimes people need to be offended. Seriously.

That being said, perhaps you could explain the series more -why you took the pictures, what they signify, etc.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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It looks like serious documentary work to me. It follows in the tradition of E.J. Bellocq's Storyville images. The material is troubling, but good documentary photography is often troubling. I'm not offended.
 

david b

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No offense here. If Sean tells you to stop, then stop. Until, post away.

Some people have to understand that APUG and photography isn't always still lifes and landscapes.
 

JBrunner

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I'm not offended. I've found some of the images difficult to deal with, but that's healthy. I haven't commented on them, because I just don't know what to say. APUG is established as a forum that displays a wide variety of serious work, and I find the ladyboy images to be pretty serious, and most likely among the more important images here.

The gallery is not available to non subscribers, and the individual who objects can simply choose not to look at them. The thumbnail on the sidebar can be set to off, as well.

We've been through this sort of thing before.
 

keithwms

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I agree with the comments above and I think the only reasonable objection that coud possibly be raised is that the thumbnails are seen by all along with other more, uh, mainstream fare... with no content warning.

I am not saying that I think there necessarily should be a thumbnail warning; I am just saying that is how some may feel, and that is as far as I can imagine that this particular objection could be taken. But Jason is right that other countermeasures are possible, and I do believe that there is a way for anyone who is particularly offended to add you to their "ignore" list.

But I agree that it is important documentary work.

Believe it or not, there is an image in my [totally tame] apug gallery which offended someone greatly. :rolleyes: So don't get bent out of shape over it!
 

Chuck_P

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I don't consider them to be obscene, but merely in the category of "nude". There is no denying that they took me by surprise, especially since I saw the breasts first and then scrolled down to view the image further. Then, the surprise. What you are attempting is clearly in documentary fashion, IMO.
 

JLP

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Not everything is pretty and rosy in this world. If sensorship where to be applied on APUG i would probably leave, i just don't believe in it except for sites for minors.
I consider your photos to be documentary in style and find it refreshing to see among all the trees and rocks.
Keep posting.

jan
 

MurrayMinchin

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I'm not even in the slightest way offended by your photographs...saddened and puzzled would be the best description of my reaction to them. Don't worry about the person who contacted you as he (I'm assuming it's a he) can avoid your images if he wants to. Art doesn't have to be pretty; it can disturb, shock, and make us think too :smile:

Murray
 

jss

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just one member? there are 28000 members registered on the site. i'm surprised there aren't more complaints. but i still wouldn't let that stop you.

help keep the P in APUG.
 

declark

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I think they should go into a separate gallery. I say this because I like to access APUG from work and as with many people in large corporations, there is a very high probabiltiy of monitoring software checking our online activity (you know for quality purposes of course). I'd also rather not give any ammunition to my employer if they decide I should be down-sized, right-sized, etc... As it is now, I tend to stay out of the gallery at work to avoid having any suspicious images pop up on the screen. Sorry Gerry & Sean.
 
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gerryyaum

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Unless asked to stop by management, sure, keep posting. Sometimes people need to be offended. Seriously.

That being said, perhaps you could explain the series more -why you took the pictures, what they signify, etc.

hmm that’s a long post but will give it a shot.

I originally started making photographs in Thailand in 1996. I had never photographed outside of Canada and the USA so it was a big expedition for me. I had read about the bar life and thought that the people (woman at that point) that worked the bars would be a great subject to document. I wanted to show the reality of their lives. When I got there (sex tourist areas) I was so nervous and uncomfortable I could barely communicate. I remember going into (actually got pulled in) my first bar and ordering a drink, not knowing the scene, not knowing the language, not having any friends, sweating like hell from the heat etc . I was so nervous my hand shook when I tried to drink my coke. This current project started there that night for real because I got to see first hand who these people were. I got to watch the interaction between the girls in the bar and the people running the bar (Mamasan) I got to see the reactions of the girls to their customers and customers to the girls and I was hooked! The more I learned that first trip the more I got involved. I started to make friends started to make a few poor photographs. I grew to feel a deep compassion for the girls working the bars.

The 1996 trip lasted 3 months, in 1999 I returned to Thailand again this time with a clearer understanding of what I was trying to say. I decided I would photograph on the streets, that I would do outdoor portraits of freelance sex workers.

http://gerryyaum.com/BG13.htm
(note: webpage has a typo, photo was actually shot in 1999)
I stayed in the country that trip for about 8 months with side trips to Japan and Cambodia. I found that I needed to learn to speak Thai so that I could communicate with my subjects and understand the country better, so I started the long trip down the Thai language highway!! Am still a long way from ending that journey. The photographs I made were all non nude, I wanted the images to be non exploitive and I worried that nudity might exploit the people I was trying to understand. The problem was that later when I showed the work, people would often be surprised that the girls were sex workers. I felt that my images were not communicating the message I wanted to tell. I was trying to be a sympathetic voice for the people I felt were being used by Western sex tourists but I was failing in that message. I also learned thou that the situation was much more complex than I initially thought in 1996. The more I learned the more difficult it was to understand things, you could not just go with the simple answers because this sex scene world was very complicated.. As I learned the language and the more friends I had both Thai and Westerner (farang) the more difficult it became to categorize things.

The next trip was in 2003, I went to Thailand for 1 year this time. This trip I shot color as well as b/w film. I decided that I needed to photograph in the shortime rooms and that I needed to show nudity but I wanted to show it in the proper way, in a non sexual fashion, I wanted the nudity to be honest and straight forward and true to the reality of that persons life. I ended up shooting both clothed and unclothed images in the rooms the girls took their customers to and sometimes in their own private rooms. This photo for example is shot in a room shared by 4 girls working a shortime sex bar.

http://gerryyaum.com/BG2.html

My next trip was in 2007, I went all out this trip. I only had 7 weeks to travel I spent 1 week in India and 1 week in Nepal, with the 5 weeks left over I rented a room in the bar area and set up a small studio in Thailand. I took 3 overweight check in bags and 2 overweight carry on bags loaded with equipment. I took a 4800 watt Speedotron flash system and a power transformer/converter(changed Thai 220 power so I can use it with my 110 Speedotron). I had a white background, 4 flash heads, 4 light stands, 1 tripod, 1 8x10 Kodak Viewmaster camera, light meter, 10 8x10 holders, 5 5x7 holders, extra flash tubes, 5x7 back for the Viewmaster, 300mm Nikon lens and a bunch of other stuff...also about 400 sheets of 8x10 tri-x and 200 or so sheets of 5x7 tri-x.

I wanted to broaden my subject matter, to tell a more truthful story of the sex worker. I photographed:

Female Sex Workers………http://gerryyaum.com/SW1.html

Male Sex Workers…………http://gerryyaum.com/SW28.html
and
Ladyboy Sex Workers…….http://gerryyaum.com/SW16.html

I wanted to not only tell the story of the woman who work the scene but also of the men and ladyboys. I wanted to photograph with compassion who they were but I also felt my feelings were changing somewhat, these people were not just victims, things were more complex than that. I wanted to show them as individuals who were being exploited but also as people with a certain amount of freedom of choice.

This last trip was for 3 weeks, 1 week I was at a Thai funeral for a friends father and for 2 weeks I shot the ladyboy series that you see on APUG. The ladyboy photographs are a bit different than the other ones at least the experience of shooting them was. When I photographed the woman workers in 1999 and 2003 I felt they were being used by the system, exploited for the most part and mostly unhappy in their lives. I found with the ladyboy shoots thou that many were happy with where they were, that they actually enjoyed the life to a certain degree and that thou they might be unhappy in their personal lives the sex with foreign males was not something they necessarily disliked. The woman sex workers from the earlier years almost to a person disliked sex with their customers but the people I met this trip seemed to be responding differently.

My feelings on the scene changes from trip to trip, maybe what I feel now or what I think I understand now is wrong and maybe next trip I will learn more and my opinions will change, but that is what it is all about, learning and experiencing that world and trying to understand.

Sorry for the long winded manifesto but why I make these photographs is not an easy answer for me. I guess when it comes down to is that I do it because I am curious and I want to understand and also because I think I owe it to the these people who are often forgotten. Many times when you work as a sex worker your here one day and gone the next, disease, physical(sexual) and mental abuse all take their toll. I have known maybe 1000 people in this industry in Thailand but if I go back today maybe only 50 or so people would still be around. I always felt it was important to make photographs to remember them. It sort of becomes like an obsession, I can see the faces of the people I have met in my minds eye, I can hear their voices and I feel a responsibility to make portraits of them, to make a record that they were important people that mattered. Maybe that is sort of egotistical but I feel it is a responsibility to document their lives, sort of like something I owe them.

The ladyboy series shot in July this year is a continuation of that, an attempt to learn and understand people and a world very different from the one I was raised in.

hope that explains things a bit clearer regarding motivation and history of this whole thingy!
 
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Miskuss

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Not sure where you post them, but I looked at your web site and thought the photos were brilliant. I found them revealing not offensive. That's my two cents worth.
 

MattKing

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Gerry:

I really appreciate your asking the question you've asked, and providing the extra background you've provided.

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone finding your photographs too difficult to deal with. I think it would be better if APUG made it easier for members to exclude them from their review, if they have a real need to do so. There have been some attempts to make it easier for some to exclude them for their own purposes, but that is difficult to do, and I don't think has been accomplished yet.

The background information is very important. Without it, it is very easy to mistakenly assume that your motives are prurient, rather than informatively provocative. If prurient, I think the complaint you've received would have more weight.

Don't stop photographing, and don't stop posting.

Matt
 
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gerryyaum

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I'm not offended. I've found some of the images difficult to deal with, but that's healthy. I haven't commented on them, because I just don't know what to say. APUG is established as a forum that displays a wide variety of serious work, and I find the ladyboy images to be pretty serious, and most likely among the more important images here.

The gallery is not available to non subscribers, and the individual who objects can simply choose not to look at them. The thumbnail on the sidebar can be set to off, as well.

We've been through this sort of thing before.

OK thanks, am new here and this is my first time through these hoops. I did not know you could turn off thumbnails.
 
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gerryyaum

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I think they should go into a separate gallery. I say this because I like to access APUG from work and as with many people in large corporations, there is a very high probabiltiy of monitoring software checking our online activity (you know for quality purposes of course). I'd also rather not give any ammunition to my employer if they decide I should be down-sized, right-sized, etc... As it is now, I tend to stay out of the gallery at work to avoid having any suspicious images pop up on the screen. Sorry Gerry & Sean.

nothing wrong with that point, it is very valid ...I surf from work also : )
 
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gerryyaum

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Not sure where you post them, but I looked at your web site and thought the photos were brilliant. I found them revealing not offensive. That's my two cents worth.

Thanks for the ego shot! ...will try to walk on water tomorrow, better take my lifejacket with me. : )
 
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gerryyaum

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Gerry:

I really appreciate your asking the question you've asked, and providing the extra background you've provided.

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone finding your photographs too difficult to deal with. I think it would be better if APUG made it easier for members to exclude them from their review, if they have a real need to do so. There have been some attempts to make it easier for some to exclude them for their own purposes, but that is difficult to do, and I don't think has been accomplished yet.

The background information is very important. Without it, it is very easy to mistakenly assume that your motives are prurient, rather than informatively provocative. If prurient, I think the complaint you've received would have more weight.

Don't stop photographing, and don't stop posting.

Matt

The cool part about belonging to sites like APUG and having a blog and such is your sort of forced to figure out what the heck your trying to do with your work. You have to stop, think and write it down in some fashion that makes sense. Apug has the added avantage of multiple points of view. Thanks everyone for telling me how you feel.
 

noblebeast

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It's good (even great) work; it's important work; it stimulates the mind and forces one to confront aspects of real life - even if not one's own real life; it opens us up to what it means to be human on this planet right now in all its variations, especially facets we might not know about (and in some cases might not want to know about). And through your journey we each get to learn something - if we are open to it.

As for those who are worried about getting caught with it on the work computer - don't look at it at work. That's not what they are paying you for, is it?

For those who are offended no matter what - your feelings only tell you about you, so rather than blame something or someone else for your discomfort, why not search out the reasons for your reaction (I know - a bit too Pop-Psychology, but not entirely invalid).

And you know what, you person(s) who are so offended? I'm personally offended by cute kid pictures. No, seriously, I am. I can't stand seeing the things. I don't tell people to stop posting them or whine to the Moderators or Sean that there should be a special hidden gallery for them. I ignore them. Try it. Once you get a little practice you'll no doubt be surprised how well it works.

Joe
 
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No, don't quit posting. If someone doesn't like your photos for whatever reason they shouldn't click the thumbnail.

Art doesn't have to be just "pretty." Art that challenges is just as important.

Here's my question: would these pictures be any less potentially offensive to some if they were of biological women? If not, why not?
 

Andy K

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Gerry, I have found your photos challenging to view, but only in that they made me think. Right from the first few you uploaded I found myself thinking, what is that person's (in the photograph) life like? How did they come to be there? What do they think and feel?

Please keep on posting.
 
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