Should I start developing at home?

kikcburluna · Aug 18, 2020

I’m just starting with home developing because I want to keep my costs low. I only shoot like 8-10 rolls each years so not many of them. I read in many websites that c41 chemicals last only a few month so I’m wondering what would be the best route for me. Should I just process all the rolls at once when I have like 15 of them? I don’t love this solution because I would get to see my photos at least one year later. Is there any other way I could do this without wasting chemicals? Developing where I’m from costs at least 7 euros so I guess even developing like 5 rolls with one kit would break even, but I would love to develop rolls as soon as I finish them and spend as less as possible. Any ideas?

Cholentpot · Aug 18, 2020

I horde my rolls until I have about 15 of them and then develop in a week or two. My kits have lasted far past a month but I wouldn't recommend if you're using fresh film with important stuff on it. I push my kits out to 30+ rolls using junk film after roll 15.

AgX · Aug 18, 2020

Buy the smallest C-41 kit you can obtain.
Refill the concentrates of the colour developer in several smaller glass bottles without any air space.
Make a working solution from one such set of bottles and use that in one day for just the films at hand, either at exhaustion or with surplus of baths.
Put the spent baths, whether exhausted or not, aside for chemical waste collection.
Repeat this when you got another bunch of films, apt for the small working solutions.

mshchem · Aug 18, 2020

Yeah in Europe you have a lot of nice small kit options. I love developing film. Shoot some black and white too. Just get a AP or Paterson tank, and a thermometer. That's all you need to get started. Buy the smallest size you can to get started. Once you have a feel for what you like you can buy a bit bigger kits.

Steve@f8 · Aug 19, 2020

I’m tempted also, but the wife would kill me if the chemicals were to stain the bath or sink (probably use the bath for space, not the kitchen because it’s primary use is for food preparation).
Question, please, does B&W chemistry stain. Sink is porcelain but the bath is a kind of high density plastic, not really plastic but can’t think of the right word.

Donald Qualls · Aug 19, 2020

AgX said:
Buy the smallest C-41 kit you can obtain.
Refill the concentrates of the colour developer in several smaller glass bottles without any air space.
Make a working solution from one such set of bottles and use that in one day for just the films at hand, either at exhaustion or with surplus of baths.
Put the spent baths, whether exhausted or not, aside for chemical waste collection.
Repeat this when you got another bunch of films, apt for the small working solutions.

This. The concentrates will keep well as long as the bottles are good and air is kept out. MUCH better than the working solutions. If absolute negative quality isn't a primary concern, you could also mix the bleach and fixer separately (rather than as blix), which greatly improves their keeping quality, and used the color developer diluted, one-shot, with extended time per David Lyga. The 1+9 dilution will allow processing 35mm at about 40 rolls per liter of color developer (120 will get only about 25 rolls, because most tanks require more developer per film for 120) and correctly stored concentrate will last for its shelf life of two-plus years.

Steve@f8 said:
I’m tempted also, but the wife would kill me if the chemicals were to stain the bath or sink (probably use the bath for space, not the kitchen because it’s primary use is for food preparation).
Question, please, does B&W chemistry stain. Sink is porcelain but the bath is a kind of high density plastic, not really plastic but can’t think of the right word.

Laundry sink, if you have one. Otherwise, get a big tray (16x20 or whatever will fit your work space) and keep all the chemicals in that (including tempering bath). No spills on the counter => no stains. Spent chemicals go in buckets for disposal.

Steve@f8 · Aug 19, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
This. The concentrates will keep well as long as the bottles are good and air is kept out. MUCH better than the working solutions. If absolute negative quality isn't a primary concern, you could also mix the bleach and fixer separately (rather than as blix), which greatly improves their keeping quality, and used the color developer diluted, one-shot, with extended time per David Lyga. The 1+9 dilution will allow processing 35mm at about 40 rolls per liter of color developer (120 will get only about 25 rolls, because most tanks require more developer per film for 120) and correctly stored concentrate will last for its shelf life of two-plus years.

Laundry sink, if you have one. Otherwise, get a big tray (16x20 or whatever will fit your work space) and keep all the chemicals in that (including tempering bath). No spills on the counter => no stains. Spent chemicals go in buckets for disposal.

Thanks Donald, sounds good.

MattKing · Aug 19, 2020

Steve@f8 said:
Question, please, does B&W chemistry stain. Sink is porcelain but the bath is a kind of high density plastic, not really plastic but can’t think of the right word.

The bathtub may be acrylic.
With normal care, most* B&W chemicals won't stain most surfaces which are designed to get wet.
If you rinse and wipe up any spills, and clean up after each session, you should be fine.
*One exception is concentrated Kodak Indicator Stop Bath, which is essentially 28%?? acetic acid - handle this in a tray.
I've used acrylic bathtubs and porcelain sinks for a couple of decades.
I would love a laundry sink, but like most condominium apartments, my homes haven't any.

Steve@f8 · Aug 19, 2020

MattKing said:
The bathtub may be acrylic.
With normal care, most* B&W chemicals won't stain most surfaces which are designed to get wet.
If you rinse and wipe up any spills, and clean up after each session, you should be fine.
*One exception is concentrated Kodak Indicator Stop Bath, which is essentially 28%?? acetic acid - handle this in a tray.
I've used acrylic bathtubs and porcelain sinks for a couple of decades.
I would love a laundry sink, but like most condominium apartments, my homes haven't any.

I think you may be right saying it’s acrylic. It’s white and wasn’t cheap, so discolouration would not be good. A sink in a laundry room would be excellent, but sadly we don’t have such.
Thanks for the added info.

Bormental · Aug 19, 2020

@kikcburluna TBH for only 8-10 rolls per year, I would continue to use labs. By developing film yourself you'll be saving only maybe $40-50 per year, at the cost of waiting longer to see the results (you need to collect several rolls to run a batch) with some reduction of quality due to long-term chemical storage and reuse.

Sirius Glass · Aug 19, 2020

kikcburluna said:
I’m just starting with home developing because I want to keep my costs low. I only shoot like 8-10 rolls each years so not many of them. I read in many websites that c41 chemicals last only a few month so I’m wondering what would be the best route for me. Should I just process all the rolls at once when I have like 15 of them? I don’t love this solution because I would get to see my photos at least one year later. Is there any other way I could do this without wasting chemicals? Developing where I’m from costs at least 7 euros so I guess even developing like 5 rolls with one kit would break even, but I would love to develop rolls as soon as I finish them and spend as less as possible. Any ideas?

While I am set up to use the Jobo processor for C41 or E6 I do not shoot enough rolls of film to process for myself. So I send my film in, besides I want the first set of prints quickly.

Wallendo · Aug 19, 2020

7 Euros seems fair for film development. Where I live, I have to mail the film out and have to pay postage both ways. With low film volumes, I would not recommend home development unless you really enjoy the development process.
Until you shoot enough film where you can justify developing every 3 months or so, there are really very few savings.

If you really want to try developing film, try B&W first. All you need is a tank, a measuring cup, a thermometer, and some long-lasting chemicals (you would need all of these for color anyway). A small bottle of Rodinal lasts almost forever. Stop last a long time, and B&W fixer is cheap and lasts for months in working dilutions and even longer at full strength. There is no rush with most B&W chemicals and you can shoot at your leisure. If you find you enjoy this, you will likely shoot more film, and eventually shoot enough color film to make home development efficient.

Kilgallb · Aug 21, 2020

I send my 35mm to a one hour lab. They use Kodak chemicals and get good results. I home develop my 4x5 as the cost of shipping to Vancouver is way to high. It is hard to let your precious negs into the Canadian postal service. I use. Unicolor kit and wait until I have 32 sheets to process.

Autonerd · Aug 23, 2020

kikcburluna said:
I’m just starting with home developing because I want to keep my costs low.

Not sure if you're doing this already, but I would start with B&W home processing just to get a feel for the process. It's a little more user-friendly.
Aaron

Donald Qualls · Aug 24, 2020

Autonerd said:
Not sure if you're doing this already, but I would start with B&W home processing just to get a feel for the process. It's a little more user-friendly.
Aaron

You could make an argument that you've got this backward. Yes, printing is easier in B&W -- but C-41 is in many ways simpler than processing B&W film. One temperature, one time, same for everything (and pull or push is the same for all C-41 films, too). Modern kits aren't any more steps than B&W film, either -- color developer, blix, maybe stop bath if you choose, then wash and final rinse. In the ways that matter (complexity, learning curve) C-41 may actually be easier than B&W (every film/developer combination has its own characteristics).

Cholentpot · Aug 24, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
You could make an argument that you've got this backward. Yes, printing is easier in B&W -- but C-41 is in many ways simpler than processing B&W film. One temperature, one time, same for everything (and pull or push is the same for all C-41 films, too). Modern kits aren't any more steps than B&W film, either -- color developer, blix, maybe stop bath if you choose, then wash and final rinse. In the ways that matter (complexity, learning curve) C-41 may actually be easier than B&W (every film/developer combination has its own characteristics).

B&W has the wiggleroom that C-41 does not. Mess up the slightest with C-41 and you'll have odd colorcasts and strange tones. Give or take a few degrees or minutes with B&W and you'll be just fine.

Donald Qualls · Aug 24, 2020

Cholentpot said:
B&W has the wiggleroom that C-41 does not. Mess up the slightest with C-41 and you'll have odd colorcasts and strange tones. Give or take a few degrees or minutes with B&W and you'll be just fine.

But get it bang-on perfectly right, with the wrong film/developer combination, and you might wind up with empty shadows, grain like golf balls, blank white in place of a dramatic sky, etc.

Cholentpot · Aug 24, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
But get it bang-on perfectly right, with the wrong film/developer combination, and you might wind up with empty shadows, grain like golf balls, blank white in place of a dramatic sky, etc.

Ah, you see. That's where the internet comes in.

In the bad old days you always had these nagging doubts if you're doing it right. Now you can just look up the recipe.

Donald Qualls · Aug 24, 2020

Assuming you're psychic enough to know which of the four or five conflicting results you get for any given search is actually correct (if any).

Bormental · Aug 24, 2020

@Donald Qualls everything you say is right. Yet, as I am finishing my first C-41 development kit, I can't say I agree with you. B&W is easier. Developer+film combinations do not add any complexity: just do what's written on a film box and you'll get pretty good results. With C-41, what is says on the box is 10% of the complexity. You have to get the "mechanics" of it right, especially without JOBO assistance. Maintaining the temperature within 0.5F and precise timing is not easy for a novice. I've done 9 rolls and half of them have some kind of color cast. And what's annoying is that you can't troubleshoot easily. Negs are impossible to evaluate visually, and later on you're left wondering "is it my scanning or is it my development?".

B&W at home is much easier.

AgX · Aug 24, 2020

Cholentpot said:
Ah, you see. That's where the internet comes in.
In the bad old days you always had these nagging doubts if you're doing it right. Now you can just look up the recipe.

Back then you still had those leaflets from both, film and processing chemicals, manufacturers, and could chose from a variety of combos. Now you got manufacturers with weird websites and got weird forums.

Donald Qualls · Aug 24, 2020

A $30 sous vide covers temperature to 0.5F at near zero effort. The hardest part for me is getting the pour-out time right to get exact development time, but I find that plus or minus ten seconds in getting the stop bath in doesn't seem to have much effect. Then again, I can't look at a negative and tell it's got crossover like some folks can.

Bormental · Aug 24, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
A $30 sous vide covers temperature to 0.5F at near zero effort.

Call my coordination poor, but a sous vide only takes care of the temperature of the water bath, not the developer. Pre-heating the tank, pouring in/out, inverting, keeping the tank submerged for as long as possible, and when I measure the temperature of the developer as I pour it out, it's not zero effort to keep it at 100F.

I've been practicing with just water before doing it for real, and my in first few runs I'd lose as much as 2F!

Donald Qualls · Aug 24, 2020

Bormental said:
I've been practicing with just water before doing it for real, and my in first few runs I'd lose as much as 2F!

Which is why some kits recommend starting at 102F. By the time you lose 2F, you're still at 100F.

Bormental · Aug 24, 2020

Yep, my Cinestill C-41 kit says 102F and 3:30 instead of 3:15. I follow these as vigorously as I can, and looks like I have under-developed a few rolls... (separate thread here).

Which, by the way, is another point I want to make: when you under/overdevelop B&W you usually end up with a usable image anyway. Maybe not the look you wanted, but sometimes it will surprise you (attaching one badly under-developed example that I love). With color, if you make a mistake the chances of getting unusable garbage is higher.

Should I start developing at home?

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