Should I Go ULF or stick with Miniature Cameras?

pandino said:

It's usually only a distraction to the guy with the smaller tool...

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Ahh, but therein hangs the conundrum. There is always someone with a bigger tool or doing a better job when we measure ourselves against others.

One of the things that you will have to come to terms with when shooting ULF versus 4x5 or MF is the fact that you will shoot a lot less images. And I don't just mean you'll be pickier about what you shoot and give it more thought, but that even if you come across a potential masterpiece you will have to guess when the best moment is and then shoot it because you only have so many holders or film with you. Most landscapes are not static, they change sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. One thing I have learned and the reason why I shoot 6x12cm or 4x5 eventhough I have a fairly unlimited budget, is that i can sit on a scene and shoot almost continuously as a scene progresses.

Many times I come across a scene that's really good, and I'll shoot a few exposures, and often the scene improves far better than the earlier version, and I'll shoot some more, it may continue to improve and i'll shoot even more. It's easy to do that if you're carrying 20 rolls of 120 film, yielding 120 6x12cm exposures with a roll film back, or 60 sheets of 4x5 readyload. If I was shooting ULF there would be more pressure to guess when the peak is and then shoot it. There's is a far greater chance of missing the peak moment that way. In addition with smaller formats I can play around with different filters, long time exposures, brackets, different crops and angles, etc.

I'm not looking to troll for a heated argument here, but I find that most of the ULF work I see tends to be quite static, understandable given the logistics of dealing with ULF. You have to decide if you want the amazing image quality of ULF or the more spontaneous and active look of smaller formats.

4x5 might not nearly equal ULF for the ultimate in quality, but does well enough for most of us. 5x7 also has its advantages. A battery of lenses (perhaps without shutters) can be assembled on any budget. Film holders are common enough. You might even make a few bucks by volunteering to haul someone's 5x7 Elwood enlarger away. At least, if you do trade your bargain off, first bring it to a show-and-tell at
KC Metropolitan Photographers Association or Wyandotte Camera Club. None of us at the Wyandotte club use anything bigger than 8x10. You can never tell what camera club members might have to share with other enthusiasts, though. Then there is the Dead Link Removed this coming November 12 in KC.

Although I own several 4x5 and 5x7 cameras, once I used an 8x10 and an 8x20 camera I have hardly used anything since. As was previously stated, the high grading of the images forced by economic necessity makes you a much better photographer as necessity is the mother of invention. Plus, the expansive ground glass is so addicting that I do not think that I will be able to use a small LF camera and have to take out my loup again. Yes, there are logistical trade offs with ULF cameras but the results are worth much more than the price of admission.

Cheers!

You asked for advice, so here is mine. I am another person with a young family, a single income, and GAS. Take TUMS. Sell the 11x14 after you get it-Though I might sit on it a little while since all these drooling hounds at your door know how much you paid for it- Get a 5x7, or 8x10. The advantages of 5x7-You will not have to get a new tripod, Holders are dirt freaking cheap-I landed 10 for a song when I started, Film is reasonable, and the contact prints are pretty. Not too small. I moved up to an 8x10 recently and do not love 8x10. The shape does not fit the way I see. Now 4x10 is cool. Can't wait to print my first ones. At the time I moved to 8x10 I was weighing a large camera. WOuld I trade everything I have in a minute for a 7x17 yep! but only if it came with holders and a lens. Those bastards are pricey-no offense Sandy. Right now you bought the means to set yourself up pretty nice in either 5x7, or 8x10.

I was told a while back by a very smart man. There is time, be greatful for what you have now, and plan ahead. If you want to get a larger format, wait. the time will come. You know, my dad just keeps getting smarter and smarter as I get older.

On a plus. Your wife will be much happier when you tell her you made money off the 11x14, than when you tell her you are dumping a couple grand more on film holders, one lens, tripod, and film.

mark said:

...all these drooling hounds at your door know how much you paid for it...

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Slavering. Palavering. Whatever.

Woof.

Large contact prints are much admired by other LF photographers. The rest of the world could care less.

Campbell said:

Large contact prints are much admired by other LF photographers. The rest of the world could care less.

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most people would want it "blown up" (can i get a poster?)

I finally received the camera, and it is indeed an 11x14! It so BIG that my toddler keeps asking, "Me get in your camera?" I never thought I'd say the words, "No! Stay out of my camera!"

It is in beautiful shape considering its age. It wasn't well packed, so there are a few new scratches, but nothing major.

It kind of feels like the GG is made of plastic, but I haven't looked too closely at it yet. It is the original B&J GG. The bellows look pretty good as well. From the looks of the film holder slot, this thing was never used. Not the slightest visible wear on the paint at all.

No wear on the rail from mounting on a tripod either. I'm wondering if it was used even once!

I'm now in search of a cheap lens and filmholder. I already told my wife I'd sell it after using it for a while. Is there really a return trip from ULF, or did I lie to her?

pandino said:

I'm now in search of a cheap lens and filmholder. I already told my wife I'd sell it after using it for a while. Is there really a return trip from ULF, or did I lie to her?

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Well if you did lie to your wife it will be resolved in one of two places. The first is bankruptcy court and the second is divorce court.

So I wouldn't worry about a return trip from ULF because that is something that will resolve itself without any input from you.

You most likely lied.

pandino said:

I finally received the camera, and it is indeed an 11x14! It so BIG that my toddler keeps asking, "Me get in your camera?" I never thought I'd say the words, "No! Stay out of my camera!"

It is in beautiful shape considering its age. It wasn't well packed, so there are a few new scratches, but nothing major.

It kind of feels like the GG is made of plastic, but I haven't looked too closely at it yet. It is the original B&J GG. The bellows look pretty good as well. From the looks of the film holder slot, this thing was never used. Not the slightest visible wear on the paint at all.

No wear on the rail from mounting on a tripod either. I'm wondering if it was used even once!

I'm now in search of a cheap lens and filmholder. I already told my wife I'd sell it after using it for a while. Is there really a return trip from ULF, or did I lie to her?

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hey there

a nice cheep lens to think about might be a 13/20/25 wollensak velostigmat 3riple convertible. i haven't checked yet, but i was told by a wizard (dag77) that it will cover an 11x14 negative. ( a zone plate or pinhole or something else might work well too on the cheep ) one thing to think about that might save you big bucks is using paper negatives. i know you had mentioned something about it way back when the thread was in its early stages ... you can make a film holder out of foam core ( speaking from experience! ). paper negatives are as cheep as it gets!
just enjoy grey days, or times when the bright day factor isn't off the charts ... and/or use a polycontrast filter, some partially exhausted ansco130 and you will be golden!

good luck

john

pandino said:

I already told my wife I'd sell it after using it for a while. Is there really a return trip from ULF, or did I lie to her?

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Even if you think you hold a round trip ticket, your soul will forever lie in large format purgatory. Why don't you come on down and join the rest of us?

wfwhitaker said:

Even if you think you hold a round trip ticket, your soul will forever lie in large format purgatory. Why don't you come on down and join the rest of us?

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William, You are no help at all. Do you at least have a pitchfork I can borrow?

I plopped my Nikkor 210 on last night to see what the coverage would be like. It was too dark to see the limits of the coverage, but WOW! What a thrill seeing the image on the GG that size. I think you may be onto something.

jnanian said:

a nice cheep lens to think about might be a 13/20/25 wollensak velostigmat 3riple convertible. i haven't checked yet, but i was told by a wizard (dag77) that it will cover an 11x14 negative. ( a zone plate or pinhole or something else might work well too on the cheep ) one thing to think about that might save you big bucks is using paper negatives. i know you had mentioned something about it way back when the thread was in its early stages ... you can make a film holder out of foam core ( speaking from experience! ). paper negatives are as cheep as it gets!
just enjoy grey days, or times when the bright day factor isn't off the charts ... and/or use a polycontrast filter, some partially exhausted ansco130 and you will be golden!

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Great advice. If I can't get a filmholder lined up, the foamcore sounds like a great idea. I'll look into the Wolly. And yes, I do plan to shoot paper negs for the immediate future. So are you saying I should use low contrast filters with paper negs? I thought I would need to increase contrast to make up for contact printing though the paper.

I'd really like to do family portraits, so I may need to upgrade from paper negs to film just for the speed. My kids can't sit still for 10 sec exposures...or 1 sec exposures for that matter.

I wondered who outbid me on that auction! Glad to see that it arrived safely. I was overwhelmed when I first saw a view on a friend's 11x14 ground glass. It would be difficult to part with such a thing but after pricing 11x14 film holders and film, you can probably manage to pry yourself away from it! I'm kind of in the same financial boat you are and my plan was to try to sell or trade it for a basic 8x10 camera and lens. J&C sells 8x10 film at a much more affordable price than one can buy 11x14 film for, and 8x10 paper is cheaper, etc. You may want to consider that, if you can unstick your eyeballs from that great honkin' ground glass! Good luck!

mjs

wfwhitaker said:

Even if you think you hold a round trip ticket, your soul will forever lie in large format purgatory. Why don't you come on down and join the rest of us?

Click to expand...

"... and as I peered through the aperture of that dank and reeking hell, I couild barely make out a tortured soul here and there crying, "Give us pyro" or "Hey, I'm trying to develop by inspection, turn out that safelight!". Having pity, I threw in a jar of Rodinal but that only inflamed the beasts and they began to yell "give me AZO" and a great slapping sound errupted, like the roar of thousands of dark slides on bare flesh. The stench of emulsion hang heavy in the air as I fled that dreadful scene..."