Should I go for a 6x4.5 system?

Pioneer · Mar 8, 2014

Pick it up, try it out. You can never know whether or not you will like working with a larger format until you try. In my opinion, even if you return to 35mm, anything that gives you the chance to step outside your comfort zone for awhile is a good thing.

Roger Cole · Mar 9, 2014

Pioneer said:
Pick it up, try it out. You can never know whether or not you will like working with a larger format until you try. In my opinion, even if you return to 35mm, anything that gives you the chance to step outside your comfort zone for awhile is a good thing.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

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Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 9, 2014

Roger Cole said:
I'll go out in a limb - unless you are intentionally aiming for a grainy look, bigger negatives ARE always better _all other things being equal._ They rarely are equal. 35mm has advantages of size, weight, speed of use, automation and lens availability that can make it the best tool sometimes. (Or at least it CAN - with one of the pro grade autofocus 35mm cameras one might as well be carrying a MF SLR. But there are still advantages in lens availability even then.)

A technically better negative does not always mean an artistically better print either.

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Yeah, absolutely. All other thing equal the bigger piece of film pleases more people. Especially chrome shooters.

In 2009 I walked the streets of Manhattan with nothing but a Hasselblad and Foma 100 film. You find ways to make it work. And the negs (the sharp ones anyway) are very nice.

If you can carry a monopod, most of the shutter speed issues are negated too.

Richard Jepsen · Mar 9, 2014

GarageBoy said:
So, I want to dip my feet into the world of MF (mainly because 120 slides are awesome)
I don't go out with the intention of photography, but living in NYC, I always have a camera with me

So I'd like something to throw in a bag and walk around with
I'd like something quick to deploy, and I don't think I get along too well with WLFs (wearing glasses and WLFs is not fun) though I may get used to it
So should I just get a 6x4.5 system camera? Or should I go with a folder (with ancient lenses and RFs)? Or a Fuji of some sort?

Thanks

With your purpose stated, you need a small light 645 rangefinder to experiment with. A Bronica RF645 set to AE would fit the bill as well as some of the Fuji's. The RF645 has the much better finder and is more modern. The RF645's 65mm focal length in vertical orientation is great for walking around and can be zone focused. The rig is much smaller than a Nikon F5, especially with a typical zoom lens. However, if doing street photography, a compact 35mm is going to be more useful more often. It's always horses for the courses.

fretlessdavis · Mar 9, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
If you can carry a monopod, most of the shutter speed issues are negated too.

And the back problems! =)

Just had to chime in hear one more time-- While I'm a big 645 fan, and 645 can be made to have the conveniences of 35mm, it is frequently with quite a large weight penalty. A stripped 645 or 6x6 camera is a beautiful thing, but once you want the convenience of AE, a motor drive, and zooms, while it can be done, is not exactly easy on the back. Not sure if I clarified that in my earlier post.

I tried out one of the Schneider zooms for my ETRS a while back... that, paired with a motor drive (had access to the older one, not the nice, light EII) and an AE prism was a massive and heavy beast. Even having the upper body of a rock climber, it wasn't exactly comfortable or easy to raise to my eye. Probably at least 10x the weight of my little Pentax ZX-5 with a 75-150 zoom mounted on it.

So, to addend to my earlier statements, 645 is a fantastic all around system *especially if you don't need the conveniences of a motor drive, zoom lenses, and very accurate auto exposure*. Your back will thank you.

If I did need those, I'd probably still be on Nikon, with an F5 or F6.

For me, taking about 25-30 frames on a big day (MF), and shooting nothing but primes in 135 and MF, it makes sense to me =)

markbarendt · Mar 9, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
If you can carry a monopod, most of the shutter speed issues are negated too.

Monopods rock!

GarageBoy · Mar 10, 2014

Great, after this thread, I feel the need to try all the formats...
Luckily, I can only afford one system
Maybe I'll borrow my dad's 500C and learn to deal with the WLF

markbarendt · Mar 10, 2014

GarageBoy said:
Great, after this thread, I feel the need to try all the formats...
Luckily, I can only afford one system
Maybe I'll borrow my dad's 500C and learn to deal with the WLF

Not just yes but, Oh hell yes.

ntenny · Mar 10, 2014

GarageBoy said:
Great, after this thread, I feel the need to try all the formats...

Our work here is done. Check back in when you need somebody to talk you into LF and ULF though.

-NT

wiltw · Mar 10, 2014

fretlessdavis said:
I tried out one of the Schneider zooms for my ETRS a while back... that, paired with a motor drive (had access to the older one, not the nice, light EII) and an AE prism was a massive and heavy beast. Even having the upper body of a rock climber, it wasn't exactly comfortable or easy to raise to my eye. Probably at least 10x the weight of my little Pentax ZX-5 with a 75-150 zoom mounted on it.

The weight differences, especially compared to gems like the Olympus OM, can be considerable. Compared to the dSLR of today, it isn't as great a difference.

ETRSi body, metering prism, back, motor winder+batteries, PE 45-90mm zoom: 6lb 5oz
Canon 40D body, 17-55mm zoom: 3lb 11oz
Olympus OM4 body, 28-200mm: 2lb 8oz

pentaxuser · Mar 10, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
In 2009 I walked the streets of Manhattan with nothing but a Hasselblad and Foma 100 film. .

Wow, Thomas, where were you hanging the camera and film to keep yourself decent.

Sorry couldn't resist

pentaxuser

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 10, 2014

pentaxuser said:
Wow, Thomas, where were you hanging the camera and film to keep yourself decent.

Sorry couldn't resist

pentaxuser

It was problematic... Good catch.

erikg · Mar 10, 2014

Probably got chased back to Minnesota by the Naked Cowboy.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 10, 2014

erikg said:
Probably got chased back to Minnesota by the Naked Cowboy.

Hahaha There can be only one.

brbeck · Mar 10, 2014

Garageboy. If interested I have a complete Mamiya 645 pro tl for sale here

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

MattKrull · Mar 11, 2014

wiltw said:
The weight differences, especially compared to gems like the Olympus OM, can be considerable. Compared to the dSLR of today, it isn't as great a difference.

ETRSi body, metering prism, back, motor winder+batteries, PE 45-90mm zoom: 6lb 5oz
Canon 40D body, 17-55mm zoom: 3lb 11oz
Olympus OM4 body, 28-200mm: 2lb 8oz

I don't know about you, but I consider the 2.5 pound difference in your example here to be rather large.

That said, your listed ETRSi setup is pretty much a worst case scenario. Going with the manual speed grip instead of the motorwinder will save a fair amount of weight (and personally, I prefer thumb winding to motorwinding, so that's a double win in my books). Replacing the zoom for a single prime will make a huge difference (of course you lose the felxibility, but then, I enjoy selecting a single lens for my day/task and sticking to it). And depending on personal usage style you can replace the AE prism for a WLF for another big weight savings.

My setup is ETR-Si, 75mm F2.8 PE, AEII prism, speed grip, and 120 back. It comes in somewhere around 4 pounds (I haven't weighed it). It's remarkably close to my Dad's D80 w/18-200 lens though. Definitely a huge weight difference compared to my OM40 w/nifty-fifty, but still doable. I'm hoping to get a WLF for a really street friendly setup.

GarageBoy · Mar 11, 2014

ntenny said:
Our work here is done. Check back in when you need somebody to talk you into LF and ULF though.

-NT

Don't even joke about that, I spent 3 hrs looking at baby Graflexes because, hey, cheap MF!
Then, looked at 4x5, cause Weegee...
Then though, hmm, I could always load up some 4x5 in my changing tent
JUST NO! Not yet!

That Mamiya outfit is tempting

spijker · Mar 11, 2014

GarageBoy said:
That Mamiya outfit is tempting

It's a very nice set and the price is very reasonable. It enables you to go light & small with the waist level finder and the hand crank. Or go bigger, larger but more convenient with the metered prism and the winder. Even then it still fits in a smaller camera bag. I had a (non-TL) Pro with the prism, winder and a 2.8 150mm lens with me on a stroll through old Montreal last Sunday with my wife and 4yo daughter. Weight & size was not an issue. I saw a gentleman with a Mamiya 7 II on Place Jacques Cartier and his camera bag was way bigger than mine. Forgot to ask "Is that a Hasselblad".

Should I go for a 6x4.5 system?

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