Should I buy a Kiev 88?

postylem · Apr 8, 2015

I'm interested in getting into an interchangeable-lens system in medium format, and I live in Estonia where the used market is heavy with really cheap soviet equipment.

There's a guy selling a Kiev 88 in "working condition", with a waist level finder and a Jupiter 36V 250mm f/3.5 for around 70€. That's really cheap. Is it worth it?

Slixtiesix · Apr 8, 2015

If really cheap, give it a try! Kiev has not the best reputation, but much of it seems hearsay. The pictures I have seen made with them look great however. I don´t have personal experience either, but 70 Euro does not sound much for a camera and lens. How much is a Rollei or Hasselblad in your country?

TheToadMen · Apr 8, 2015

Check what the "working condition" actually means.

I was given a Kiev 88CM. The lenses are great. The mechanics are a bit crude and not optimal, as it seems. The film back didn't transport the film properly, but I found two other backs for just $30.

BTW: the Kiev 88 and the Kiev 88CM have different lens mounts!! So make sure you get the right lens type!
The Kiev 88 lens mount was modified to accept most Pentacon Six mount lenses around 1999 and was designated the Kiev 88CM.

Mr_Flibble · Apr 8, 2015

If you're looking for a mechanically reliable daily shooter, I would suggest you look elsewhere.
Unless it's one of those KIEV 88 cameras that has been rebuilt by Hartblei or other noteworthy company.

I paid a €100 for my (pre-CM) kiev 88 set with 2 film backs and a Vega-12v lens a few years ago.
I've had it partially disassembled a couple of times to fix minor annoyances and I've installed Aki-Asahi's anti-reflection kit in it.
I do really like shooting with it, but I don't trust it enough to use it without having a back-up camera with me.

€70 for the set sounds like a fair price, but as TheToadMen suggest, best to check if everything works like it should.
Don't forget: Wind the shutter before setting the shutter speed

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Apr 8, 2015

Use a rubber band around back body joint , it always leaks liight , check your film nummber from back window and correct it with small winder add an 250mm lens to your collection and you have an EXCELLENT camera.

LeytonC · Apr 8, 2015

Might be an idea to check this out...

http://theartofphotography.tv/episodes/kiev-88-inexpensive-medium-format/

Ted Forbes give some advice and a review on the kiev-88 system.

Slixtiesix · Apr 8, 2015

Ask the buyer if you can put a roll of film through it! Preferably slide film, so you can check for light leaks and inconsistent exp. times immediately.

TheToadMen · Apr 8, 2015

Slixtiesix said:
Ask the buyer if you can put a roll of film through it! Preferably slide film, so you can check for light leaks and inconsistent exp. times immediately.

And bring a good (handheld) light meter (if you don't have one, get an app like this one).

randy6 · Apr 8, 2015

I have a kiev 88cm for the past 9 years works fine for what it is. Its easy to use but big I would rather use my rolleiflex. You will need to put a piece of black tape over the f stop preview on the 80mm lens lever since these leak light. I have no problem with my backs leaking light but on occasion I cant replace my dark slide on one back till the film has been used don't know why.

TheToadMen · Apr 8, 2015

Maybe an other option is getting a Mamiya TLR, like the C330f or C220f. These can be found for about $150 (with patience) and these cameras use also interchangeable lenses. I like handeling one of these very much!

Mr_Flibble · Apr 9, 2015

Concerning light leaks;
The original light seals on the cassettes are a single folded piece of plastic. Light will leak past the sharp edges of the dark slide when inserting or removing it from the cassette.

postylem · Apr 9, 2015

Slixtiesix said:
How much is a Rollei or Hasselblad in your country?

Well, it's rather harder to find a Rollei here, compared to old Russsian cameras. Same for Hasselblad or anything else. And with the cost of shipping, I'd like to get something from locally, where I can pick it up. Also, I think I'm up for the adventure of the unreliability... I think. Something is nice about getting a piece of native equipment, so to speak, as well.
Someday I'd like to use a really good camera, like a Hassy, but for now this is about as expensive as I'll go.

Mr_Flibble said:
Light will leak past the sharp edges of the dark slide when inserting or removing it from the cassette.

I'm not sure I quite understand, but I think I will get this camera, and see how it is. If I need to do some work on it that will be a fun adventure in itself. Have you found you can remedy this light leak problem?

TheToadMen said:
Maybe an other option is getting a Mamiya TLR, like the C330f or C220f.

I've seen those online... and I have a Любитель 2, a soviet TLR (no interchangeable lenses, of course) and the form factor is interesting. Someday it might be fun to try that one too. Through-the-lens is something I'd like now though.

cliveh · Apr 9, 2015

Should I buy a Kiev 88?

No, buy a Hasselblad.

Dr Croubie · Apr 9, 2015

There are a lot of kiev haters around, and from my research they're mostly in the US who bought from particularly dodgy sellers in the 90s and 00s, sometimes out of the backs of magazines. They were delivered the worst that the FSU could offer in terms of both camera and service, and have never forgiven the brand. Even worse are the kiev-haters who've never owned one, or sometimes never even held one. Just don't listen to those ones (though sometimes it's hard to tell who they are).

But there are good versions, rebuilt and CLAd by places like Hartblei and Arax, sold by good sellers like grizzly33bear and others on fleabay.
Personally, I've never had a problem with my 88CM, it takes beautiful photos with Zeiss MC glass on it. Never had a light leak, or overlapping frames, none of that (not with original backs nor the NT backs, but get the NT backs if you can, so much easier to load).
I bought mine from just a regular 2nd hand seller, not arax directly, but they'd bought it from somewhere good.
It's also a CM version, rebuilt and tested and flocked and all that, takes P6 mount lenses (and original K88 / Hassy 1000 lenses on adapter, I've just scored an original Zeiss 250/5.6 Sonnar for Hassy 1000).
The Jupiter 250/2.5 is also a great lens (although not as good as the Zeiss 180/2.8 and 300/4 Sonnars, I use them more often nowadays).

So is this one up for sale a regular 88, or 88CM? If it's an 88CM, it's a steal. Even if just a regular 88 it's not a bad price, both the body and lens separately will sell for that much by themselves on a good day, if you hate them you can even turn a profit when you sell them...

postylem · Apr 10, 2015

Dr Croubie said:
So is this one up for sale a regular 88, or 88CM? If it's an 88CM, it's a steal. Even if just a regular 88 it's not a bad price, both the body and lens separately will sell for that much by themselves on a good day, if you hate them you can even turn a profit when you sell them...

It is the regular 88, with the Салют mount.

I've just bought it.

I figured that this one seems likely enough to be useable, and if I am going to look for a better deal or maybe save up for something is just going to result in more time not taking photos. Thanks for your thoughts, people!

Sirius Glass · Apr 10, 2015

Screw logic! If you want it, then buy it! We are talking GAS here!

Dr Croubie · Apr 10, 2015

Congrats. Just remember, after you take a shot, wind the film on straight away. Do not ever change shutter speeds before you've wound on, it'll kill it (or so I've read, never tried it, and why chance it?)

Dr. no · Apr 11, 2015

Great! Enjoy it. These have been my main MF camera for 15 years. They are idiosyncratic, and have an interesting and not always reliable shutter mechanism, but are eminently usable, especially at that price.
The main reason to use them is the lenses that are available. The CM versions are best, as the Zeiss Jena lenses are as good as anything available. The Ukrainian lenses are very good also--look online for comparisons of the Zodiac fisheye to Zeiss Hasselblad...
For the price difference to a Hasselblad *even now* you can have your Kiev repaired several times!

postylem · Apr 12, 2015

Dr. no said:
The Ukrainian lenses are very good also--look online for comparisons of the Zodiac fisheye to Zeiss Hasselblad...

You're referring to the Zodiak 8 (30mm f/3.5 fisheye made by Arsat), right? Have you seen the these for the regular Kiev 88 /Salyut mount as well as the 88 CM / Pentacon 6 mount? I see some eBay listings as such, but I'm not sure if I should go on that alone as proof.

Sirius Glass · Apr 12, 2015

postylem welcome to APUG.

itsdoable · Apr 12, 2015

postylem said:
You're referring to the Zodiak 8 (30mm f/3.5 fisheye made by Arsat), right? Have you seen the these for the regular Kiev 88 /Salyut mount as well as the 88 CM / Pentacon 6 mount? I see some eBay listings as such, but I'm not sure if I should go on that alone as proof.

They were available in both mounts (Type B & Type C). I have a Зодиак-8 (Zodiak-8) in the B mount (old screw bayonet), which I use on a Hartblei Kiev-88 that can take a Hasselblad film back. It was previously used on an old Kiev-88 which (although quirky) never gave me any problems. The old style Kiev film backs were another story (hence the upgrade to the Hasselblad film backs). I've never used the NT film backs.

postylem · Apr 15, 2015

I have bought the camera, and am partway through my first roll of film. I have a question. If anyone who has one can help I'd appreciate.

I read online (here) that when winding the film, the numbers for later frames may not line up when looking in at the film backing paper through the peephole on the back. Apparently this is normal, and the frames should still be properly placed. This doesn't really make any sense to me. Indeed when I look through the peephole, the film looks underadvanced. I'm tempted to give it a little extra winding after cocking the shutter, to get it to line up. Shouldn't I?

EDIT: I just saw that

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
check your film nummber from back window and correct it with small winder ... and you have an EXCELLENT camera.

Ah. Okay. So I will do. I wonder what that "Kievaholic" site was on about.

itsdoable · Apr 15, 2015

postylem said:
...I read online that when winding the film, the numbers for later frames may not line up when looking in at the film backing paper through the peephole on the back. Apparently this is normal, and the frames should still be properly placed. This doesn't really make any sense to me. Indeed when I look through the peephole, the film looks underadvanced. ...

That is normal for a Keiv (and Hasselblad) back, the spacing mechanism puts the frames closer together than the numbers. The problem with the old Kiev backs is that you sometime get some overlapped frames, because the Russian films (which the Kiev backs are calibrated to) had a thicker base than the western films. Thus the advice of putting a piece of masking tape across the beginning of the foll to fool it.

Or...

postylem said:
...I'm tempted to give it a little extra winding after cocking the shutter, to get it to line up. Shouldn't I?

Ah. Okay. So I will do. I wonder what that "Kievaholic" site was on about.

Nothing wrong with lining up the #s as that forces the spacing to be sufficient.

You should probably have checked to see if the dark slide seals needed replacement, as they usually do (even Hasselblad film backs recommend replacing the foam every few years). It's a 15min DIY job with a few cents worth of foam (or a $15 kit).

AgX · Apr 16, 2015

postylem said:
Ah. Okay. So I will do. I wonder what that "Kievaholic" site was on about.

It is a site dedicated to fans or users of all kinds of Kiev cameras:

http://www.kievaholic.com/

pagonzales · Apr 17, 2015

I would suggest getting the kiev 60 instead. You lose the interchangeable backs but it's far more reliable and easier to shoot. Mine had an additional bonus: it took 13 6x6 pictures on one 120 roll

Should I buy a Kiev 88?

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