Shot on 3 Canon AE-1s. All 3 had different image quality. Unsure what is going on?

voightlandertroubles · Oct 5, 2021

Hey all!

I had the privilege to test 3 Canon AE-1 Programs over the weekend and got it developed. However, when the photos came back, all 3 cameras showed completely different quality in their images and I'm unsure what happened.

So each camera shot using the same settings on A which was 1/500sec at F/11 on Kodak Ultramax 200 film on a sunny day. These settings are usually what I always shoot in this area (I've shot over 60+ rolls so I can vouch the exposure is correct).

So the first camera, all the photos were very dark and underexposed even though it shot between 1/500 at F/8 & F/11.

The second camera, also same as above in terms of settings, but had a different result - the photos were all quite bright and soft?

And lastly, also shot on the same settings, the 3rd camera came out fine.

Unsure what happened there? Could it be a lens issue or a camera body problem since all 3 were set-up with the correct settings including the ISO selection and all, but each had such a different result!

Laurent · Oct 5, 2021

Hi, I'd do the test again, with the same lens. I'd even set it to manual with stop-down so that the coupling between the camera and lens is taken out of the equation. If the lens on the second one stops down a bit too slow, it could result in a brighter image (and may be softer if the focusing is not 100% accurate and is not compensated by DOF)

runswithsizzers · Oct 5, 2021

Was the same lens used on all three camera bodies?

Are your posted examples scanned from paper prints or from negatives? If you can post photos of the negatives, side-by-side, then it might be more informative; the scanning process can become another source of uncertainty.

We’re all three rolls developed identically? Sometimes it’s hard to tell underdevelopment from under exposure.

I believe it is somewhat common for older shutters to get slow which can cause overexposure. The lens diaphragm can get sticky also resulting in over exposure. I can’t think of any mechanical problems that might cause under exposure.

Don_ih · Oct 5, 2021

If you had the camera set to A, the shutter speed would be determined by the meter based on the aperture you choose. So, it wouldn't necessarily be 1/500.

The lens is a likely culprit for #2. I doubt the shutter is slow. I've had a lot of AE1 cameras - none have had a slow shutter (even the ones that wheezed).

I'd blame the meter for #1, the lens for #2 (but could be the meter). But you also need to be sure the battery is good. AE1 cameras like fresh batteries.

voightlandertroubles · Oct 5, 2021

runswithsizzers said:
Was the same lens used on all three camera bodies?

Are your posted examples scanned from paper prints or from negatives? If you can post photos of the negatives, side-by-side, then it might be more informative; the scanning process can become another source of uncertainty.

We’re all three rolls developed identically? Sometimes it’s hard to tell underdevelopment from under exposure.

I believe it is somewhat common for older shutters to get slow which can cause overexposure. The lens diaphragm can get sticky also resulting in over exposure. I can’t think of any mechanical problems that might cause under exposure.

All 3 bodies had 3 different lenses (50mm F/1.8) and the examples were scans from a local film shop. I'd assume they would develop them identically.

voightlandertroubles · Oct 5, 2021

Don Heisz said:
If you had the camera set to A, the shutter speed would be determined by the meter based on the aperture you choose. So, it wouldn't necessarily be 1/500.

The lens is a likely culprit for #2. I doubt the shutter is slow. I've had a lot of AE1 cameras - none have had a slow shutter (even the ones that wheezed).

I'd blame the meter for #1, the lens for #2 (but could be the meter). But you also need to be sure the battery is good. AE1 cameras like fresh batteries.

When I was shooting, the A did come up saying it'll be at 1/500 when shooting across all 3 and they all had fresh batteries.

Don_ih · Oct 5, 2021

voightlandertroubles said:
When I was shooting, the A did come up saying it'll be at 1/500 when shooting across all 3 and they all had fresh batteries.

A slow shutter or sticky aperture will not cause 2-3 stops of underexposure such as seen in the first image. The meter, however, could. Perhaps there is a different fault that causes the shutter to run faster than it should?

AgX · Oct 5, 2021

voightlandertroubles said:
So each camera shot using the same settings on A which was 1/500sec at F/11 on Kodak Ultramax 200 film on a sunny day. These settings are usually what I always shoot in this area .

There are no such "settings on A".
The A-setting is the setting for shutter priority exposure automation. There one sets the shutter speed and the camera choses at the moment of release the aperture depending on subject luminance. Which in your case may have been that F11 indicated in the finder.

(I now see this already has been mentioned.)

runswithsizzers · Oct 5, 2021

voightlandertroubles said:
All 3 bodies had 3 different lenses (50mm F/1.8) and the examples were scans from a local film shop. I'd assume they would develop them identically.

Have you compared the negatives, side-by-side over a light source, to verify that the negatives actually do vary in density? This is necessary to prove the variation was not introduced by the scanning step.

Looking at page 6 of <this online manual> it suggests that it may be possible to mount the lens incorrectly, which can prevent correct exposure(?)

MNM · Oct 5, 2021

Take camera 3 (the one that looked best and where lens and body are assumed good), load a fresh roll and use all three lenses. Try to keep all exposures under the same conditions. That way you can see if the issues follow the lenses while only using one roll of film. If all look good on camera 3, you know the other two bodies have some problems. You will also know what lens to use while troubleshooting the other two bodies.

You could use the lens from #3 on the other bodies but you'd need to rewind, reload and skip over exposed film to avoid using two rolls and paying to develop both. That also won't tell you anything about the other two lenses. Suppose it depends on $$$ vs time and trouble.

MattKing · Oct 5, 2021

When I've done a test like this, I've taken a single meter reading and I've set each camera and lens manually to the exact same shutter speed and aperture settings. I've also used film from the same bulk roll. If I was using colour, I would use three rolls from the same emulsion batch, purchased at the same time from the same retail source.
All that being said, I'll bet it was the scanning - lets see the negatives backlit and side by side. Make sure the edge printing and space between the frames is visible please.

reddesert · Oct 5, 2021

You have the cameras and lenses and we don't, so you can do a lot more testing than we can do remote diagnosis over the internet.

You don't need film to do some basic tests.
(1) I would check that all the cameras meter the same scene suggesting the same exposure.
(2) Are all the lens apertures are opening and closing correctly? Sometimes, apertures on old lenses are sticky. Without film, set the aperture to something like 5.6 and shutter to a moderate speed, look into the lens from the front, and fire the shutter. You should see the lens stop down and then re-open fully. For example, the lens in example #2 might be stuck open, which would cause overexposure.
(3) Are all the shutters operating properly? This is unlikely to be a problem with an electronically timed shutter like the AE-1 - either it works or it doesn't - but you can verify this by looking through the camera back and firing at fast and slow speeds.

Shot on 3 Canon AE-1s. All 3 had different image quality. Unsure what is going on?

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