Shortage of materials

BMbikerider · Apr 25, 2022

I tried to buy a 20ltr kit of Kodak Ektacolour developer, Bleach fix and a bottle of starter today. My usual supplier who I have used for a good few years, during our conversation mentioned that he had been advised that Kodak had not made the kits for a number of years, but had moved the production out to a company in China that had now ceased trading. That meant to him that Ektacolor RA4 is no more.

I have not heard or seen anything mentioned in forums such as this, or in the photographic press, is there any news about this the other side of the pond?

Of course the problem with the poor availability of the consumer level of film is also a cause for concern.

MattKing · Apr 25, 2022

Its not clear that Hong Kong based Sino-Promise Holdings has ceased trading, but they were very badly hit by pandemic related issues.
When I last communicated with my contact there last November, they were struggling to get the chemical components they needed for manufacture, and were having huge problems getting product shipped from China to the US and other markets.
Sino Promise had been for several years contract manufacturing much of the colour chemistry and colour paper for Kodak Alaris until they bought that portion of Kodak Alaris' business in 2020.
They were also the largest distributor in the world of Kodak branded products - much of which of course in the Asian market.
Four weeks ago there was a story on Peta-Pixel that indicated they may be in a cash crunch as well.

mohmad khatab · Apr 25, 2022

لماذا لا تصنع مبيض النحاس بيديك وستنتهي المشكلة.؟
100 جرام من كبريتات النحاس + 100 جرام من كلوريد الصوديوم (منزوع الأيونات) + ماء منزوع الأيونات.
أعتقد أن كبريتات متوفرة في العديد من المتاجر المستلزمات الزراعية والأسمدة. وهي رخيصة جدا.
انظر إلى تلك الصور.

mshchem · Apr 25, 2022

Unique photo (New Jersey USA) still has Fuji paper chemistry and paper, quick look. No Kodak branded products.

mshchem · Apr 25, 2022

Watching the situation in Shanghai, looks like things will be stalled for a while.

koraks · Apr 26, 2022

BMbikerider said:
I have not heard or seen anything mentioned in forums such as this, or in the photographic press

Uhm, well, I think that's perhaps mostly a matter of you having missed it than it not being there. Indeed, supply problems of Kodak RA4 products (both paper & chemistry) as well as the divestment to Sino Promise have been fairly widely (in analog photography terms) reported and discussed for a few years now. Problems started even before the pandemic.

AFAIK Sino Promise is at this point at the brink of being bankrupt. So there's very little hope of supply recovering, especially in the short-to-medium term. There's of course the odd chance that another party will pick up the pieces when Sino Promise kicks the bucket, but given the lack of large revenue potential, I seriously doubt it. Let's just hope Fuji doesn't retract entirely from this business, although I'm not too optimistic about this either.

If you like RA4 printing, better enjoy it in the next two years or so because it's uncertain if after that period there will be any supply left.

halfaman · Apr 26, 2022

As far as I know, most Kodak RA4 paper and all professional color chemistry are produced in China since many years. This is not a new situation but the collapse of Sino Promise shortly after taking over the business from Kodak Alaris. The main factory was originally part of EK.

pentaxuser · Apr 26, 2022

Well it certainly sounds as if the problem reported by petapixel on 21 March and seeming based on an Inside Imaging article is more than just a post Covid teething issue. Like BMbikerider, I don't recall much of a shock being registered on Photrio compared to other events connected with the future of various matters affecting Kodak( for want of a better word) chemicals and paper

What effect, if any, might SinoPromise's "difficulties" have on b&w ex-Kodak chemicals?

pentaxuser

sillo · Apr 26, 2022

There's a long thread on the black and white side of the forum about the kodak chemistry disruption.

For me I switched to Fuji film chemistry and Champion paper chemistry.

koraks · Apr 26, 2022

pentaxuser said:
I don't recall much of a shock being registered on Photrio compared to other events connected with the future of various matters affecting Kodak( for want of a better word) chemicals and paper

It's a but subjective, but it seems there has been a bit of a modest revival of the interest in RA4 printing, which is more recent than the initial divestment of Kodak's China plant to Sino Promise. So part of the story predates the more popular interest of Photrians. Even so, 99% of the interest on Photrio goes to B&W, even to the extent that threads in the Color section are usually swamped with B&W-specific content more often than not.

And again, it has been discussed. It's just overlooked by more than it has been discussed by.

BMbikerider · Apr 27, 2022

The alternative for the paper is FUJI which apparently is manufactured in either Belgium of Holland and the supply seems to be fairly steady at present with plenty of cut sheet boxes at least up to 20x16 and rolls which are intended for mini-labs but some of the main suppliers will only sell 2 rolls at a time which would mean the 2nd rolls may be out of date well before it is finished.

Regarding chemicals There is of course Tetenal which I have used but have never been happy with it in a NOVA deep tank. The longevity of the developer made by Kodak is/was absolutely incredible so long as the replenishment was done according to their recommendations. Tetenal is no where so good, in fact quite poor.

There is a new kid on the block (for me anyway) sold under the ADOX brand which may be a possible alternative for RA4. Apart from being a little bit cheaper by volume in UK than Kodak Ektacolor, which according to user revues the life with replenishment is very good. (What is 'very good' remains open to being defined).

As for film, I still have 20 x 36exp films of mixed Kodak and Fuji, currently refrigerated and all well within date, but buying more if I needed it is a non starter - There just isn't any! Apart from Ektar at a ridiculous price which is probably why there is still some around.120 is more available so I may have to start using the Bronica SQa a little bit more once my 35mm supply dries up.

AgX · Apr 27, 2022

BMbikerider said:
The alternative for the paper is FUJI which apparently is manufactured in either Belgium of Holland.

The only manufacturer of photographic paper in Belgium is (was) Agfa.

The Fuji plant in the Netherlands some yars ago lost part of the paper manufacturing sequence and only can emulsion coat papers.

koraks · Apr 27, 2022

BMbikerider said:
Regarding chemicals There is of course Tetenal

And Fuji, and Champion and probably one or two others.

AgX said:
The Fuji plant in the Netherlands some yars ago lost part of the paper manufacturing sequence and only can emulsion coat papers.

No doubt you're right; still, afaik many types of crystal archive are produced (i.e. at least coated & confectioned) in Tilburg, The Netherlands. And of course in Japan.

halfaman · Apr 27, 2022

BMbikerider said:
There is a new kid on the block (for me anyway) sold under the ADOX brand which may be a possible alternative for RA4. Apart from being a little bit cheaper by volume in UK than Kodak Ektacolor, which according to user revues the life with replenishment is very good. (What is 'very good' remains open to being defined).

As far as I know, Adox just bottle RA4 chemistry produced by other company.

BMbikerider · Apr 27, 2022

halfaman said:
As far as I know, Adox just bottle RA4 chemistry produced by other company.

I have just looked at an empty bottle of Adox RA4 developer concentrate and in very small letters on the front Adox Fotowerke GMBH. There is no mention of being made by any other company.

Interestingly the development time given on the side of the bottle is still 45 seconds, but the temperature is +/- 3 degrees.
I always thought that the development temperature was critical! At least it was with Kodak.

koraks · Apr 28, 2022

BMbikerider said:
I always thought that the development temperature was critical! At least it was with Kodak.

Not really. For C41 it's more critical than for RA4. Look up PE's posts on the topic. He mentioned several times that RA4 runs fine on a wide range of temperatures as long as development time is adjusted for lower temperatures.

halfaman · Apr 28, 2022

BMbikerider said:
I have just looked at an empty bottle of Adox RA4 developer concentrate and in very small letters on the front Adox Fotowerke GMBH. There is no mention of being made by any other company.

Here is explained by Adox themselves. Just bottled in the past, now using premixes to produce a monobath.

ADOX RA-4 Mono-Concentrate Kit Available Again

After a few months of interrupted supply we are happy to anounce that our RA-4 Monobath Kit is back on the shelves. The kit has only two bottles (monoconcentrates). One is the RA-4 developer and the other is the Bleachfix. You simply dilute each liquid 1+4 (1:5) and get going. The developing...

www.photrio.com

BMbikerider · Apr 28, 2022

koraks said:
Not really. For C41 it's more critical than for RA4. Look up PE's posts on the topic. He mentioned several times that RA4 runs fine on a wide range of temperatures as long as development time is adjusted for lower temperatures.

Quite but the development times are still shown as 45 seconds even with a 6 degree span of temp variation!

koraks · Apr 28, 2022

Well, I'm not too surprised at that either. I run Fuji RA4 at room temperature with a development time of only 75 seconds. This implies that at the prescribed temperature the 45 second development time already has a pretty big safety margin built into it.
Keep in mind RA4 is essentially a develop to completion process. Hence, developing a little longer doesn't hurt as long as you don't overdo it.

AgX · Apr 28, 2022

BMbikerider said:
I have just looked at an empty bottle of Adox RA4 developer concentrate and in very small letters on the front Adox Fotowerke GMBH. There is no mention of being made by any other company.

The designation is about the legal entity who distributes it and is legally responsible for. It does not necessarily indicate the actual manufacturer. There also may be a hybrid form, where Adox buy the concentrates in bulk and bottle them.

perkeleellinen · Apr 28, 2022

BMbikerider said:
There is a new kid on the block (for me anyway) sold under the ADOX brand which may be a possible alternative for RA4. Apart from being a little bit cheaper by volume in UK than Kodak Ektacolor, which according to user revues the life with replenishment is very good. (What is 'very good' remains open to being defined).

I am using the Adox kit, it works well for me and I appreciate the smaller volumes. Another member here had a bad experience with it, however, it might be worth a search to find that thread.

BMbikerider · Apr 28, 2022

perkeleellinen said:
I am using the Adox kit, it works well for me and I appreciate the smaller volumes. Another member here had a bad experience with it, however, it might be worth a search to find that thread.

I think that was me before I found one last box of the Kodak Ektacolor, which itself was on the way out as I found.

The first pack of ADOX a couple of months ago was good with clean whites and a good black. I didn't use it for a few days and the next time I did the prints had a colour cast I could not get rid of. Even the unexposed borders were lemon yellow. I gave up Using the ADOX.

Then I found what must have been the last box of Ektacolor in the country and set about using that. Again the 1st prints were good. It was replenished as per Kodak's recommendation as I have always done. but after a week the 'edge' had gone off and the colours were shall we say 'muddy.'

I ditched that just in case it was chemical contamination and set about a thorough deep clean of the processor which itself took a couple of days with many rinses one after another and getting the tank up to temp several times.
I mixed more Ektacolor and the same happened again after a week the developer was well out of condition. Oddly enough the Bleach fix was fine!

So now I am about to mix more ADOX (after the tank is fully rinsed out again) and see what happens.

Even at todays prices, the Kodak product for the 20L pack of bleach and developer would be around £160, just a little cheaper than the same quantity of ADOX.

BMbikerider · Apr 28, 2022

AgX said:
The designation is about the legal entity who distributes it and is legally responsible for. It does not necessarily indicate the actual manufacturer. There also may be a hybrid form, where Adox buy the concentrates in bulk and bottle them.

Post number 17 would seem to suggest that the current ADOX RA4 is actually made by them

DREW WILEY · Apr 28, 2022

There are several serious availability issues at the moment : First, pandemic-related labor and supply chain issues affecting manufacturing volume itself; second, the utter helluva backlog mess the shipping and trucking industry is still under; third, the sudden resulting price spike of all kinds of things due to shortages, making it unrealistic for distributors to make large volume order without serious risk; fourth, diminished demand from some parties due to price strain, but for others, the opportunity to sell, but having to fight for what it available. For example, the near total drought on Kodak papers has caused a panic obtaining Fuji papers. My own preferred Fuji paper has been on back-order over six month now. And now things are really getting crazy with a war causing a spike in energy prices, which determine the cost of just about everything.

I have the necessary RA4 chem on hand, but wonder if it will still be any good when my paper finally arrives. Just gotta wait it out, and in the meantime, keep printing black and white instead.

BMbikerider · Apr 28, 2022

After ditching the Kodak RA4 I rinsed the NOVA several times and made up the 1st Adox kit and set the processor to warm up earlier today.

I have just made 4 x 6.5/8.5 prints straight off without a problem even the filtration is as near as makes no difference when I was using Kodak Developer. I won't be able to print again until Saturday, so I will see if the developer maintains it efficacy after use today.

Shortage of materials

BMbikerider

MattKing

Moderator

mohmad khatab

mshchem

mshchem

koraks

Moderator

halfaman

pentaxuser

sillo

koraks

Moderator

BMbikerider

AgX

koraks

Moderator

halfaman

BMbikerider

koraks

Moderator

halfaman

ADOX RA-4 Mono-Concentrate Kit Available Again

BMbikerider

koraks

Moderator

AgX

perkeleellinen

BMbikerider

BMbikerider

DREW WILEY

BMbikerider

Shortage of materials

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency